How to strike the right balance of people plus technology

Will Sturgeon:

Welcome to our Business in Focus podcast. I'm Will Sturgeon, your host for this episode, and today, we're exploring the relationship between people and technology. We'll talk culture, skills gaps, fear of change, the importance of diversity and why striking the right balance between a human-led and tech-powered approach to business is so important. Joining me today are Steph Kelly, Chief People Officer at Iris Software Group.

Stephanie Kelly:

Hi, great to be here.

Will:

And Lola Evans, a technology director here at PwC.

Lola Evans:

Hi, thanks for having me.

Will:

Welcome, both. Now, there can sometimes be an uneasy relationship between and technology, people are prone to blaming technology when things go wrong, They undermine the effectiveness of technology through human error or resistance to change but when we strike that right balance, things, great things, can be achieved. A brilliant idea, combined with the right technology is the answer to so many challenges we face, and the right technology, used with the right understanding and judgement, can create brilliant services and experiences but striking that right balance isn't always easy? What's holding organisations back? Steph, I'll come to you first.

Stephanie:

Thank you, Will. Yes, I think it's, for me, a question of culture, so establishing the right culture across the business in the first place, where tech is not only accepted, it's absolutely welcomed. So, a few things that we have been doing at Iris are things like being really clear about what our mission and vision and values are and our objectives and being very focussed on where we want to go as a business, and when you're very focussed on where you're going as a business, you will see that tech's going to actually help you get there. It might help you get there more quickly. It might take the legwork out of some of the more boring things. It might you get there with better quality. So, creating the right type of culture, I would say, is perhaps the beginning step for making this relationship work really well.

Will:

What about, Lola? What would you add to that?

Lola:

I mean, I would completely agree with all of that. I think that there's still a little bit of mystique around technology for a lot of people, and so one of the things that organisations need to think about is how they can demystify technology and really focus, as you say, on the outcomes, what it's trying to achieve, how it can support the business strategy.

Will:

Excellent, well let's pick up on your first point then, Steph, around culture, and how do you really go about creating a culture that fully embraces the power of technology, but also values the unique contributions and qualities that people bring?

Stephanie:

Yes, absolutely. So, when you study HR at university, one of the things that you look at is the Industrial Revolution and all the fears that existed then around whether these, you know, brilliant machines would replace your job, and I think some of that still exists today, which is why creating a culture where tech is embraced and actually loved is a really important thing to do. At Iris, one of the things that we do is make sure that we have the right language around tech. So, whenever we are producing something or doing something, we as, for example, 'Is there an app that can do this? Is there a piece of tech that can underpin this, to help us get to the best outcomes for our customers and also make our staff's life easier?'

Will:

Lola, what do you think's, you know, the way that organisations could start going about addressing, sort of, need for this culture that embraces tech and human qualities and contributions?

Lola:

I think it's a really interesting question because one of the things we always need to remember is that technology is being created by people, and so actually, it's people that are bringing their skills and qualities to that technology solution. One of the challenges, I think, that we've had sometimes at PwC is making sure that people who aren't involved directly in the technology development or in the technology parts of the business don't feel like they're not somewhere exciting. So, actually, kind of, balancing that whole what the business objectives are, thinking about what the business objectives are, recognising people for their strengths, so you might be the person who designs something or develops something might be a coder, but equally, someone's who's a leader in a different way or good at building relationships, we also value those skills. So, I think it does come down to a little bit of individual people management, and that builds up into the culture that embraces technology and people qualities equally.

Will:

Is there a bit of virtuous circle here, in that the more people you get engaged in technology, the, sort of, more democratised its uses across organisations, across society, the better those technologies become because they're being informed, tested by so many different people and perspectives?

Lola:

So, in my particular part of the business, we've just launched a bit of a campaign called 'technology everywhere', which is to encourage everybody to think about how technology can impact the way that they specifically work with clients, and that absolutely leads to better technology, better ideas, because everybody's involved in it. So, I do think there is a virtuous circle, not only in the development of the technology itself, but also the actual way that we solve problems for clients.

Will:

Great, and, Steph, I'd like to come to something you mentioned a moment ago, with this approach of, you know, sort of technology-first approach, 'Is there an app which can do this? Is there a way that technology can help us?' And link that to you point about the Industrial Revolution, and ask how do you reconcile this looking for an app that can do something, while giving people the confidence that their jobs are safe, that there is still a hugely important role for people within the organisation?

Stephanie:

Yes, absolutely. Well, history helps us with that, right, in that the Industrial Revolution was hundreds of years ago and here we are, in 2022, and what we have is actually a talent gap. So, we have more technology than we've ever had before, and actually we're all looking around to try and find people to fill the gap. So, history does help us with that. Another point I would make is that technology, the staff are in charge, are employees are in charge of choosing the technology and adapting the technology to suit their needs in the best way that they can, so I think that helps with this question as well because employees remain in charge and it frees them up, so they can be really creative, can be really strategic, can be really human in what they do.

Will:

Fantastic, and I'll come to you next, Lola, a point which seems very pertinent here is that, you know, an integral part of creating the right culture, as we've been discussing, and getting the right combination of people plus technology is around getting the right combination of people and the importance of diversity. Why is it so important and what's the risk of ignoring diversity or getting that mix wrong?

Lola:

Yes, I think that there's diversity on multiple different spectrums. So, there's clearly, kind of, diversity that we need to embrace when we're thinking about our customer base. So, I think of some of my clients, they're in the consumer, kind of, oriented field and they really want to have technology that talks to the wide range of customers that they've got. So, if you think about, you know, where television has gone, as an example, and recommendation engines about what to watch, the way that those are presented have to take into account the customer base, so that's a good example of having diverse people that sit behind the scenes that can then present something that's engaging for a wide audience. Another aspect would be, kind of, user experience and thinking about it from that perspective as well. So, when you have a wide range of people who are looking at technology and building it, they can think about a wide range of users as well. So, it's absolutely critical. The other aspect is also just thinking about people who are building technology and technology developers often are quite different to the rest of us, and I'd include myself in the 'us', that are not coders and they expect something different from work, and so, kind of, creating a culture that talks to both of those types of individuals is another part of diversity I think we need to think about when we are talking about technology.

Will:

Diversity's also, presumably, hugely important in addressing something which Steph mentioned a moment ago and something which is a common concern in technology, which is the skills gap. You know, there are not enough people with the right skills but I'd also be interested to discuss, to what extent is it about a lack of specific tech skills versus a lack of overall technology literacy within the workforce, you know, so everyone is better positioned to make use of technology, to understand its potential? Steph, I'd be interested in your thoughts on those point?

Stephanie:

Yes, absolutely, so I do think there is a lack of tech skills out there, so one of the things that we try to do is go out to schools and universities and talk about having careers in tech and trying to be a bit more inspirational, so people consider this as a career option. We do find it hard to fill certain positions, which is why, the paradox of that is that with lots of positions, we're trying to find tech, so that we need to have less of those tech skills in the organisation. In terms of improving digital literacy across the piece, I think that's really, really important as well, so we do lots of that. So, we have up to 40 different training programmes that people can self-select at work, and interestingly, our most popular course is actually Power BI, and when I look at the people who are selecting that course, it's from all realms in the organisation, so all different departments, from professional services, facilities, customer support, and just the regular departments that you might imagine would be using tech like that. So, I do think it's really important to inspire the next generation for a career in tech, grow your own tech from within, so we have all sorts of academies, where we take people without the skills and then we have short and long programmes to give them the skills,and also having people improve their own tech literacy themselves, digital literacy themselves.

Will:

Lola, if I bring you in on this, obviously we have a large tech workforce here and, you know, you're obviously looking across the whole industry as well, what do you see as being the, sort of, steps organisations need to take? Perhaps, first of all, if we think about attracting talent from the existing tech work pool, what are people looking for and how do you bring them into the organisation?

Lola:

Yes, so I think, to address that skills gap, one of the things that we've noticed when we try to recruit people from technology is they really do care about the projects, the nature of the projects they're going to work on and being able to leverage the skills that they have but also develop them further. So, making sure that there are exciting projects, there isn't too much bureaucracy that's, you know, kind of, 'Computer says no,' for them to exercise their skills is really important, and that's also really important for retention as well because you might get them in the door but lots of our clients struggle to hold on to the talent if they don't have the right sorts of projects to keep people engaged. So, that would be one point that I would make.

Will:

There's, presumably, something of a Catch 22 situation here, whereby perhaps the organisations who most need to recruit tech talent perhaps don't have the projects to show would-be employees what they're doing and the sort of things they could do, which presumably will become a bigger problem over time and potentially creates a gulf between organisations who can hire and can't hire technology talent. What are your thoughts on that, Lola?

Lola:

I think it's a really interesting point, and actually, I think many organisations now need to think about different ways they can bring in talent. So, it might not just be recruiting directly into the organisation, it might be exploring partnerships with other organisations and thinking about how you can co-create something or create an ecosystem around technology. So, there are other ways of bringing the people in that don't just require you to have a graduate programme, and exploring that might give you access to talent you might not otherwise have.

Will:

Steph, what are you doing at Iris to address this? I mean, you've already, sort of, for example, going into schools and addressing the issue with the size of the overall talent pool but when it comes to attracting tech talent or perhaps upskilling the talent that you're bringing in, what are the approaches that you're taking?

Stephanie:

Yes, great question about attracting tech talents. We have, very purposefully, looked at every step of an employee journey, so we look at, you know, how we appear to a pool of candidates and we make sure that that is as attractive as possible. Then we make sure we have re-engineered our actual recruitment process, we know time kills deals and we know the impression that we give people really, really matters, so we've got that part right. Then we keep in touch with people until they join us. We make sure that on-boarding is as great as possible, and then we are 100% focussed on having a really engaging environment as well. So, when that person joins us, they feel really excited and they give the best at work and do the very best job and they want to stay with Iris. So, we survey our employees every single month, the same thirteen questions, and the feedback from the employees goes straight to the manager, very actionable, it's all anonymised but very actionable feedback, and then we measure and monitor that and make sure that all our staff are as happy as possible. As well as re-engineering the recruitment process, we're also looking very closely at the talent pool and having as wide a talent pool as possible. So, we look for just key and core competencies, not too much, just the kinds of things that we think are going to make people successful at Iris, and one of those things is actually growth mindset. So, coming into the organisation with a, kind of, positive, open mind about what can be achieved and the ways that we can go about achieving it because we actually know, at Iris, that we have to keep what we call 'hunger in paradise'.

So, we do really well now but we might not do really well in the future if we don't adapt what we do to the changing markets and the changing environment. So, we hire in this raw talent, people with various different backgrounds, and we're checking for things like learning agility because we know that these people will tell us where we need to go and which tech is the next tech. One other thing is we have innovation at the heart of our culture and we have a programme called 'made in Iris', and any employee across the organisation is encouraged, or every employee across the organisation is encouraged to think innovatively, come up with a great idea and then present that idea, Dragons' Den style, to the executive team. Then those ideas are given funding, they're given mentorship, things like that, so we bring those ideas into production. So, all of these things, I think, are going to help keep us digitally savvy.

Will:

Steph, I think that sounds like a great initiative, and I'd like to bring you in on that, Lola, because that really brings to mind a point you made at the start, which is about this point of technology being designed for people, by people, and an initiative like that, such as Steph's outlined at Iris, where people are getting really hands-on in determining what technologies are going to be used in the future, what technologies are going to shape innovation with an organisation. It feels like a great way to get this, sort of, democratisation, this movement of greater human engagement with technology, which should create better outcomes. What are your thoughts on that?

Lola:

I mean, we have also done something very similar in terms of embracing innovation, I think those points on raw talent, and part of the way we would address that is democratising it by giving lots of people training on some of that base technology. So, they're almost coming in, and we talk about the phrase 'digital native', so we already know that some of our newer staff members are coming in with proficiency in technology maybe we didn't have, but then giving them some hands-on tools, such as Power BI, Alteryx, these types of things, so that it, kind of, switches on their brain about what might be possible. Giving them the space, as you say, you know, when we think about innovation, to think about how else technology can be used, what else might be out there that might be beneficial to us. So, I think it's a really important point when remembering that it's the people really, it's not the specific technologies, it's the people who are actually thinking about how technology can be used.

Stephanie:

Can I also add to that? I think what's really important in an organisation is role-modelling, so the organisation itself role-modelling, you know, really great implementations of tech, so we can see this, 'Oh, this has worked really well over here,' and individual role models in the organisation as well, that can then learn from that and then go, 'Well, what can I do in my part of the organisation? How can I embrace tech to make the experience for my customer group the best it can be?'

Lola:

Yes, and actually we're seeing a lot of that, where technology is used in one part of the business for a specific problem, it's showcased and then other people see that it might have a similar application for a different use-case, and actually, the more that we're sharing these stories about technology and the impact it's having on client outcomes and on business outcomes, the more people get excited about it. You, kind of, mentioned the love of technology earlier on, I do think words like 'passion', 'love' are important because if people are excited about it, they will use it and actually it will create those outcomes that we're looking for as well.

Will:

I think that's a wonderful point and a great way to sum up lots of the ground that we've covered, so it's been a fascinating conversation. We're going to have to wrap up here but I'd really like to thank Steph for joining us today, thank you, Steph.

Stephanie:

Thank you very much for having me.

Will:

Thank you very much, Lola.

Lola:

Thank you.

Will:

If you'd like to find out more about PwC's human-led, tech-powered approach, check out PwC.co.uk/thenew equation. Until next time, I'm Will Sturgeon and this has been Business in Focus from PwC.

Participants

• Will Sturgeon
• Steph Kelly
• Lola Evans