Video transcript: High Performing Trustee Boards - Katie Lightstone and Atul del Tasso-Dhupelia interview

Transcript

Jonathon Land: Hello, I'm Jonathon Land and welcome to our vlog today on 2 topics: What makes a high performing trustee board, and what do we think the right answer is for UK pension provision in the UK? So I'm joined today by Katie and Atul, 2 partners in our pensions business. Katie and I worked together for over a decade on a number of multi-employer schemes including the MNOPF, Pilots and the USS and Atul does a wide range of pension schemes but is also an insolvency practitioner and has that insight into the distressed space as well. So Katie, starting with you, what do you think makes a high performing trustee board?

Katie Lightstone: That's such a great question and I think over the course of my career, 15 years advising trustees, I probably sat in on at least 300 trustee meetings. So I have lots of experience to draw on. For me the critical thing is allowing proper discussion and debate amongst the trustee board. All too often I see, you know, a slightly rehearsed or sort of fait accompli presented to a trustee board. But it's amazingly powerful when you have such a diverse group of people together ranging from, you know, amongst my clients, academic professors through to airline pilots through to postmen and women, and they all bring a fantastic and different perspective. So enabling that voice to come through makes for I think better decision-making.

Jonathon: So getting all the voices in the room, I love that. And Atul what about you, what do you think?

Atul del Tasso-Dhupelia: So I absolutely agree. Diversity for me is massively important. Not just that skill set diversity and diversity of thought that Katie talked about, but for me actually it's just demographic diversity. You know, if you think of what trustees are doing, they are representing members’ money. And where I've seen those trustees broadly represent the demographics of members, they’ve been able to relate to members better, make decisions on behalf of members better, communicate with them better. So for me it's demographic diversity. But then there's no point in having all this diversity that Katie and me are talking about if you don't have an inclusive chair. You're getting an inclusive culture that is open to challenge, that's going to put their hands up and say I'm wrong and that's massively important too.

Jonathon: Yeah, the importance of the chair and getting the diversity right, I love that. So coming to future UK provision all the time you spent in the industry, what do you think is the right answer for UK pension provision, Katie?

Katie: Look, I'd love to have a crystal ball. But what I am seeing is massive amounts of innovation in the market, you know, I think bringing back DB will be challenging given the layer upon layer of regulation that's made that such an expensive pension provision. But what's really important in the future is financial education because the provisions that are coming out now DC, CDC, maybe something else tomorrow, all require members to be taking decisions with the background of, you know, investments, level of contributions. And I just don't think the current population is properly equipped to make those really critical decisions for their future. So financial education is what we need.

Jonathon: We got it, like it. And Atul, what about you from your experience?

Atul: So I'm going to be controversial. I think we need to bring back DB. Bring back to what pensions used to be, which is paying a living when you retire. You know, if you look at the average salary in the UK, people do not have enough to pay into DC and retire on that. And if you look at the average salary in the UK and you know if I look at my own situation, my mum was a PA, my husband's mum was a single mum teacher. They had DB provision. If they were working today on current equivalent salaries they would not have enough to retire on and have their financial independence, and I think that's a tragedy.

Jonathon: Wow, what a great insight there. So just quickly to close, Katie, proudest moment advising in pensions?

Katie: So it has to be partnering one of the big industry wide multi-employer schemes that you talked about. Lots of examples. I think one that springs to mind is advising the Universities pension scheme through the COVID valuation that they did. So massive uncertainty about that industry and how it could have been impacted by, you know, lack of international students at the same time as huge market turmoil leading to a huge deficit. So navigating that alongside the trustees who were, you know, in the spotlight was something I'm very proud of.

Jonathon: Yes, agreed, I remember it. Yes. Atul, what about you, proudest moment?

Atul: So for me it's got to come from some of the distressed cases I've worked on, you know, where people's pensions are effectively in jeopardy, companies are on the line, people's livelihoods, and it's us as a firm advising our clients getting to a solution for everyone involved and it's a massive privilege to work in those situations.

Jonathon: There are some great insights there. I love this point about education, the importance of DB and diversity and I remember those moments in COVID advising pension schemes and how important that was. So thank you all for listening to our vlog today. Thank you to Katie and to Atul for your contributions. And I look forward, going forward to share with you some other insights from other stakeholders in the industry. I hope you found that interesting. Thank you.