Transcript: A - Z of Tech: Episode 22: Y for year in Tech

Louise Taggart:
Hello and welcome to the latest episode of the A-Z of Tech podcast. I'm your host, as always, Louise, and almost unbelievably, we have reached the penultimate letter of the alphabet. So, this episode, we're going to be looking at the letter Y for 'Year in tech'. I'm joined today in the studio by two guests, one of whom may sound a little bit familiar to some of you who've listened to some of our previous episodes. So, we have Maria Axente, who is PwC UK's Responsible AI lead, and Alex Ruhl, who is Head of Metaverse Technologies, also here at PwC. So, thank you both very much for joining me for this part of the discussion.

Thanks for having us (x2).

Louise:
You're welcome. So, Alex, if I might turn to you first, could you give us just a very quick reminder of what the Metaverse is, if that's possible, and then also some of your quick highlights of the year so far?

Alex Ruhl:
Sure, so we like to think of the Metaverse as the evolution of the Internet itself. So, the way that you interact with digital content and information is rapidly changing into a more immersive, specialised experience, and some of highlights from 2022 is that we've seen the hype of the initial Metaverse, kind of, craze die down a little bit and what we're now seeing is true value use-cases, which is really exciting. Couple of highlights specifically, Citibank came out with a report earlier in the year to suggest that the Metaverse-related economy was going to be worth 13 trillion by around 2040, which is obviously very exciting for businesses. We ourselves, PwC, released a report, where business executives and consumers were surveyed about the Metaverse and over 80% of executives in business think that the Metaverse is going to be 'business as usual' within one to three years, which, for someone like me, is very exciting news.

Louise:
Perfect, thank you very much, and, Maria, if I might turn to you, so, as I said, some of our listeners might remember hearing from you in our 'E for Ethics' podcast, which was back in the mists of time, and also, more recently, on our 'W for Web3' episode as well. So, it's great just to hear from you, again, a quick recap of some of those highlights that you've seen over the past twelve months as well.

Maria Axente:
It has been an interesting year for AI, not as interesting as the Metaverse, as the new kid on the block, but what we have seen with AI is a more settled evolution. First of all, boring AI is here to stay, meaning that a lot of the companies have invested in not only playing with AI but adopting it at scale. They have been caught up with their data programmes, with cloud adoption, that made it possible for companies to really look into applications that will deliver real business value. The second big update of the year is the work the regulators are doing around the world, from the European Commission to the UK, to the US. We see more and more regulatory projects that are coming of age, that will hit the shelves very soon, and that will pose quite a bit of a challenge for companies operating globally. They are having to look at all these different rules, synchronise it and continue to play, and play at global level, and adopt AI in a safe and responsible manner. Probably the most exciting development of the year is the merger of generative AI, which is a type of AI that allows a machine to take in real content generated by humans - text, images, video, audio, also code - and be able to generate content that's original,  and looks like been written by humans but is machine generated. That might have immense implications for a number of industries, from creative to media, including software development.

Louise:
I know some of that went quite viral actually quite recently, didn't it, so it's going to be interesting to hear a bit more on some of those topics in a moment. Actually, before we do a bit more of a deep dive into some of those themes, I'm actually going to take a little bit of a step back and if we think a bit more broadly about the year in technology, I'm also just going to do a bit of a plug for my own team, the cyber threat intelligence team. So, we actually also publish an annual 'year in retrospect' report. Hopefully, that's going to be out in March of 2023, and this is actually an annual report that we produce that does a bit of a deep dive into some of the research we've produced over the course of the past year, some of the techniques that we see major cyber threat actors using globally. Some of the topics that we're anticipating are going to be covered in this upcoming report include ransomware developments, which is always a really hot topic, some of the implications of the Russian invasion of the Ukraine on the wider cyber threat landscape and also, more broadly, some of the new techniques and tools that we've seen being used as well over the course of the year. So, if anybody's interested, keep your eyes peeled for that one being released as well in the future. Maria and Alex, back to the both of you, I'm anticipating there's going to be quite a lot of overlap in some of the topics that you've both touched on there. So, Alex, if I might turn to you first of all, what do you think some of the implications of the trends that you've seen over the past year mean in terms of the Metaverse?

Alex Ruhl:
Yes, it's a good question. I think we're seeing a lot of businesses looking to the near future of how they can adopt some Metaverse technologies. So, for example, the hardware that you access -  a lot of these smartphones are AR-enabled or even virtual reality devices. You know, the form factors alone in 2022 have come down to these really incredible stand-alone devices that are very comfortable to wear and have amazing endless possibilities for things like remote collaboration, extended workspaces, training, all sorts of different things happening. So, I think businesses are looking at this and saying, 'Right, the technology, the hardware side of the technology, is getting to the point where it is scalable.' Right, we, in PwC, are, kind of, doing some really exciting projects with clients using this technology now, and then also, beyond that, we're looking at key disruption areas in certain industries, where the Metaverse is going to have the biggest impact, for example, healthcare or industry or people in organisation. There are so many interesting parts of organisations that are now saying, 'Right, the Metaverse is here to stay. It's not just a hype craze.'

We might not call it the Metaverse in five years' time but the evolution of the Internet is changing, that is undeniable. So, I think executives and organisations are a lot more open to now saying, 'Okay, where do we need to put our investments in the next one to three years and what does this look like in a ten-year window?' Which again, is opening up really interesting conversations for myself and my team in the UK, to help these clients look at those areas.

Louise:
So, it's almost as though it's being recognised now as part of almost a 'business as usual' technology, rather than a, kind of, as you said, like a hype piece, which is really interesting to hear. Maria, from your perspective in terms of maybe the AI angle in this, how would you respond to Alex's comments there?

Maria Axente:
I would not wish for the Metaverse to become a 'business as usual' technology, as has, kind of, happened with AI, because we haven't really addressed some of the key challenges of both technologies, they are still emerging. We're still learning about it, and that is the risk they bring and the harms that might inflict on the users. The risk of labeling or relabelling both technologies as mainstream is that you lose the focus and attention from solving those issues and understanding that there is a transformational element that needs to happen within organisations. We need to learn how to work with those new technologies in a way that will allow us to remain competitive but also be on top of it. Alex and I, our team, have started working on the risk of the Metaverse, to really understand and map things. First of all, 'What are the possible less positive implications of this new technology?' And how we, in PwC, are able to tap into our experience in working with previous technology, including AI, and developing risk taxonomies and risk and control strategies to be able to remain in control. I think that's something that the regulators are getting at, being able to recognise that we need to bring the risk in the same sentence with benefits when we consider investing in those technologies, and that, to start with, is an educational process.

We've seen this in AI and we've seen we've gone a long way, from raising awareness of the models, the AI models, and enhancing various inequalities and breaking things around before they solve it. So, I think it's time for us to take these learnings and put them in the context of the Metaverse, and allow us to go in that direction in a safe and responsible manner. I think that's really important. I can't stress how important it is for us not to be, again, intoxicated with enthusiasm, that this new technology that will help us solve a lot of problems by going to places we haven't been, forgetting that there are strings attached.

Louise:
Yes, and to be fair, to that point, I think one of the key pieces of work that we do is helping clients, kind of, like, on that journey. Whenever we engage in some kind of Metaverse-related project, whether that be, again, through a Web3, blockchain-based project or whether that be more of a virtual reality, virtual world, augmented reality deployment,  part of the process, to Maria's point, is absolutely looking at that framework of compliance and risk and helping clients. Especially big organisations, where this is like a whole new world for them, helping them understand what is a safe and compliant way to go about this, even if regulation is kind of playing catch-up a little bit. Would you say that that's something that you've seen evolving and shifting over the course of the past year and what might some of those successes look like in terms of communicating the need for frameworks and safeguarding with some of these technologies?

Alex Ruhl:
Yes, I think it's interesting, right, because every conversation I'm having around the relationship between regulation and innovation is very much, 'It's, kind of, a Catch 22, right?' Like, one has to go fast and often, it's been technology runs away and then regulation plays catch-up, and I think there is a little bit of that. At the end of the day, they don't have anything to regulate if it's not being used and it's not being wanted to be implemented in some, kind of, big ways, but at the same time, I think we're definitely paying attention. We don't want to maybe make some mistakes of previous innovations, where we don't consider this right from the start. So the ethical implications, the safety implications, you know, even just things like if you're wearing a headset, for example, in virtual reality, you need to understand how to safeguard someone when they're going into that space, not just physically. 'Are they in a safe environment to actually be able to jump into a virtual world?' Also mentally, you know, what are they about to go through? Anyone that's not done virtual reality might not know the kind of power of that immersion that happens. So, making sure that, especially if you're doing something like unconscious bias training or something that's a little bit vivid and visceral, to make sure that you've got that safeguarding when they come out of the headset, to be able to be supported and make sure that that stuff is rigorously tested and you know what you're going to be putting people through before you implement it. So, that's a key consideration of ours.

Maria Axente:
Regulators have been catching up for a while now with the advancement of technology. But there's another trend, especially in AI, that will help keep those who develop technology honest in a way, which is the education of the wider public and the notion of participatory design, especially applied in the context of AI. Which means that more stakeholders will be involved in the decision being made about technology. That will create an extra layer of pressure in terms of what standards and what rules are being followed when technology is being developed and used, and I think that's exciting because it's not just about resorting to regulation every single time when something goes wrong, it's about creating a society, an environment, where we have more transparency about how technology is being developed. What sort of objectives are being fulfilled? What sort of structures are behind, what sort of incentives? With that, being able to open up ourselves to more scrutiny and critique that will allow for the regulation to play a part in how we govern technology but it's not the only governance tool that we have for emerging technologies.

Louise:
No, absolutely, and, I mean, that all sounds very sensible and a pragmatic approach that we need to take, in terms of education alongside regulation and not just relying on regulation alone.

Maria Axente:
Of course, it's common sense but from there to practice is a long way because we need to start changing how we operate. We need to start changing how we frame technology in the first place. And there's a whole new trend in the field of AI that looks at re-framing AI, from just focussing on technology and general purpose technology, data and algorithms, into a socio-technical system that really acknowledges the implication a technology like AI has on the context of development and use, and that's fundamental. Once we redefine technology and we understand its core benefits but also limitations, we'll be able to govern it better. We'll be able to be better-prepared even for unintended future consequences.

Louise:
So, in terms of looking back over the past twelve months, and also, I suppose, looking forward to next year, 'Y for Year'. Just doing some crystal ball gazing as well, which we love to do on the podcast, do you feel that we have seen examples or we anticipate to see examples of where this awareness-raising is working or where regulation is expected to come in to help or to complement that, kind of, educational piece as well?

Alex Ruhl:
Over to you on that one, Maria.

Maria Axente:
The biggest event in the world of AI will be the AI Act from the European Commission. It's in the final stages of approval in the European Parliament, and that will be, I will dare to say, a cataclysmic event in the world of AI because it will put things in perspective. We'll require more investment in compliance and with that, a whole new mindset in our AI is being developed at scale. How exactly that will pan out in practice, what sort of market will we have once we have a new law. Whether it's applicable in a European context remains to be seen but we've already seen a lot of movement from companies to pre-empt the regulatory requirements by saying, 'We know we need to transform. We need, you know, to open ourselves up, to be more transparent, to have guidance in place, to have principles, to have procedures.' So, that preparation will allow almost, like, a complementary change to what the new compliance rule will mean, which is that transformation, being able to engage with a wide variety of stakeholders, to bring civil society in those conversations, right? The fact that we have so many algorithms that are making life or death decisions in so many different contexts, and those who are first-hand impacted have no word to say, and we see this trend growing and growing, companies pushing themselves to be much more open and transparent and engaging with those groups that haven't been engaged or consulted before.

Alex Ruhl:
I get goosebumps every time I hear Maria talk, just FYI. I'm like, 'Yes, yes to all,' and this is why we work together on this stuff, right, because, admittedly, I am more of a creative technologist, so, you know, I approach things from the more experience design element and what the actual end experience looks like. As we're finding out on this episode, it's so, so important that we are considering these aspects because we want this, we want these technologies first and foremost, like you're saying, to impact people for the better, right? We want to make people's lives better with technology, so we have to do that by thinking about people first, technology second. I think, generally speaking, there is a little bit of a, 'Ooh, a new gadget, the exciting new innovation,' but actually, if we start with the, 'Right, what are we trying to achieve? What do we want, you know, the experience to be like for end-users? What are we trying to solve here?' and then apply the technology, rather than, you know, getting carried away in the hype.

Maria Axente:
It's a balancing act, although sometimes I feel like I'm ruining the party!

Alex Ruhl:
No, you are the party.

Louise:
Any mention of 'life or death' on this podcast always makes me a little bit edgy, I have to say, in terms of the use of technology! Okay, so regulation aside, if we look forward to next year, do you anticipate seeing any evolutions or any other changes, in terms of how this technology is implemented, that can have some positive impacts in terms of some of these factors we're talking about?

Alex Ruhl:
If you think about the Metaverse technology stack as a whole bunch of innovation coming together, right, it's lots of different technologies that make up the Metaverse stack, and I think, from that experiential point of view, like, what you're actually interacting with, I think we're going to see loads of progress in 2023. In 2022, like I say, it was a lot about, kind of, 'Right, the hype is dying down. What are the real use-cases, kind of, coming out of that period?' So, this year has all been about testing, prototyping, piloting, small, bespoke projects, like, really getting a sense of the landscape and the economy that makes up the Metaverse industry. In 2023, I am really excited, like I say, we're getting to the point of scale now with some of these hardwares, the ROI from a not just financial point of view but also just an experiential point of view. People love, especially in the workplace, interacting in these new, exciting ways. I think, in 2023, we're going to see much more big, tangible projects being rolled out across industries. And especially in certain industries which already know that they're going to be able to achieve really exciting things, with things like massive virtual reality deployments, using virtual worlds to build communities within organisations, transforming workplace collaboration.

It's going to be a really exciting year, but also, within that, I do think there will also be a little bit more of an understanding about how Web3 and blockchain and smart contracts and NFTs and all the exciting stuff that bubbles away in the infrastructure layer of the Metaverse. I think, in 2023, we're going to see some really exciting use-cases for that come through. I think virtual reality, augmented reality, the experience side of the Metaverse, is a bit more well-established in a business context but I'm excited to see where it goes with Web3, especially as regulation starts to play catch-up.

Louise:
Maria, from your perspective, do you expect to see or hope to see maybe any successes next year that might contribute to this, kind of, development as well?

Maria Axente:
More likely, there will be some excitement, developments coming out of AI research but for the rest of us in the real world I think it will continue to be the same trend of strengthening the foundation of the digital transformation, which has been a long time coming. The fact that we've told our clients to prioritise digital transformation for a long time, before we had the pandemic, prioritise digitisation of the network, which saw investments in cloud migration off the roof. Once we see this stability of the enterprise architecture, we will be able to start playing with the Metaverse and the different scales. I feel that we have learned the ropes of how to transform our organisations with the world of digital. We are much more mature in understanding how to augment human capabilities with technology, rather than thinking that it's black and white, as replacing humans with machines, and in that case, we'll be in a better position to see all the emerging technology delivering value, real values. They might not be as exciting but they will deliver what they were supposed to deliver, and probably that's the most exciting thing, the boring AI, boring technologies, will be there to save the day. While we'll keep an eye on AI beating humans at various games or various activities, and the world of AI safety emerging stronger and stronger. Which will have an impact for the Metaverse because we need to start discussing, especially in business-to-business contexts, how we provision, how we design for safety of the user, especially when we will spend much more time in the virtual world and we need to expand the same laws of protection and safety from this physical world in the virtual world.

How do we do that? Probably it's going to be a challenge for 2023. But I would say that the big trend in 2023, I hope it's going to be safety in technology but safety being taken very seriously and not just short-term safety. It's the long-term safety of operating in those environments, working alongside machines, and also thinking about the future, you know. The whole discussion about AI taking over humanity in a few years, it's been taken with, you know, a lot of laughter and dismay by a lot of us but the developments we have seen with AI prove that those visionaries might have been right. There is a lot to think about, those smart machines that are increasingly developing human-like capabilities that we need to be thinking about and investing in research, and also thinking about operating in virtual environments. What does it do for our physical and mental wellbeing? We know so little about it. How would we be able to make policy decisions or regulatory decisions if the research is nowhere to be seen in those topics?

Alex Ruhl:
I think, to that point though, interestingly, I think that this year, 2022, has been the first real year since the pandemic and I think, during the pandemic, we had this huge acceleration in technology, right, because we needed it. Fundamentally, we needed it to get through that time, and so it's going to be really interesting again in 2023 to see what does the workplace look like, and what do our social lives look like as a result of those couple of years? I mean the younger generations, they are even more so turning to these virtual worlds. Absolutely, there needs to be a lot more safeguarding and research into safety but also they seem to be doing pretty well and those economies are booming and digital assets are becoming extremely important because of that convergence of the physical and digital social and workplace life. So, again, exciting times to think in 2023, where technology is going to fit into our everyday lives, and that's not just Metaverse, that's all technology, as we start to get back to, dare I say it, normal.

Louise:
Normal, whatever that was in the first place. Well, Alex, Maria, thank you so much for joining me to discuss some of these technologies, some of the opportunities that they can bring, both in terms of the Metaverse and, more broadly. Also I think, Maria, as you've made very clear, some of the wider considerations we need to give that implementation as well, in terms of safety, thinking about the end-user, safeguarding and making sure that's part of the wider conversation and not just an afterthought. So thank you both very much for joining me for this discussion. Listeners as well, thank you very much for joining us for this episode. You can also join us for the final letter of the alphabet in the next episode, when we'll be discussing Generation Z. Alex, you gave a great segue there into some of those topics as well.

Alex Ruhl:
Teed you up.

Louise:
So, thank you very much.