Transcript - Episode 26 - Women in work: making the transition to Net Zero fair for all

Transcript

Vayana Skabrin
Hey everyone - welcome to the latest episode of our Economics in Business podcast. I’m Vayana Skabrin, a Senior Associate in our Economics team, and I will be your host for the next few episodes.

The focus of today’s episode will be the 10th Women in Work Report released earlier this year, which is based on our annual index of 5 indicators measuring women's labour market outcomes.

In light of the United Nations Climate Change Conference - COP27 - and PwC’s global strategy - the New Equation - the findings of the Women in Work report are more important now than ever. Action on Net Zero is a central tenet of governments, businesses and policy makers around the world, but what are the implications for women in the workplace? What lessons have we learned from Covid-19 that we can carry forward to make sure all women, especially those from ethnic minorities, are better placed for the transition to Net Zero?

To explore these key themes, we're very lucky to be joined in the virtual studio by Priyanka Kanani - a manager in the Sustainability & Climate change team, and Divya Sridhar, a senior associate in our Economics team specialising in Net Zero and Social value. Welcome to you both.

Priyanka Kanani
Hey, thank you for having me. It's nice to be here.

Divya Sridhar
Hey, thank you for having me.

Vayana Skabrin
I'm very excited to have you both here today. Thank you so much for joining.

Right, so before we dive into the broader implications of the report in terms of Net Zero and ESG, it’s important to consider the impact of Covid-19 on Women in Work as there are important lessons to be learned. This year, for the first time in its history, the Women in Work index actually fell after a decade of slow but steady improvement in women's employment outcomes. Progress towards gender equality in work was set back by at least 2 years across the 33 Organisations for Economic Co-operation and Development, also known as the OECD countries. This is because women's employment losses during the pandemic were relatively worse than men's, demonstrated by higher female unemployment rates and lower female labour market participation in 2020.

So Priyanka, it would be superb to hear your reflections on whether COVID-19 impacted all women in the same way, or if you perhaps observed any differences.

Priyanka Kanani
COVID-19 impacted women at work in different ways. And from our research, we found that some specific groups, such as women with childcare responsibilities and women from ethnic minority groups, were more severely affected than others.

Vayana Skabrin
Right, I’d be very interested to hear what you found for each of those groups Priyanka. To start, maybe you can tell me a bit more about women with childcare responsibilities.

Priyanka Kanani
Yeah, sure. Happy too. So in our report we talk about women raising children and paying what we call a motherhood penalty. Now, this is essentially the idea that having childcare responsibilities has led to underemployment, slower career progression and lower lifetime earnings. This is driven by the longstanding structural inequality around the unequal burden of unpaid care. Women's unpaid care and domestic work is worth more than 10 trillion U.S. dollars each year to the global economy, which is more than a 10th of the world's GDP. But of course, this is not recognized in formal measures of the size of the economy.

Vayana Skabrin
Wow. Okay. And that's such an important point you made there on the motherhood penalty. How did you see that Priyanka reflected in the data?

Priyanka Kanani
The data shows us that the unemployment gap opens between men and women once the first child is born. So on average, women's employment rates drop significantly, whereas men’s stay relatively constant. Now, this makes sense in the short term, as we know women tend to take more time out of work on maternity leave. However, this gap persists over time. This is because women with childcare responsibilities often take on part time roles and or lower quality, less secure work leading to occupational downgrading. But what’s stark to note in the data is that by the time a child is 20 years old, women are still unlikely to have caught up with men. There was a study done of 6 OECD countries that showed us that women in the long run earn between 21 to 61% less than what they earnt before having a child. Whereas men's earnings were largely unaffected by parenthood.

So all of this shows that this has long lasting intergenerational effects, resulting in lower lifetime earnings, contributing to a persistent gender pay gap, lower pensions and associated high rates of poverty and economic insecurity, especially for single women over retirement age.

Vayana Skabrin
What you're describing there feels very real and close to home for many of us women. I'm sure many of our listeners would have observed this too in their workplaces, particularly when it came to homeschooling and the different caring commitments. I can imagine also, that all the trends that you describe worsened during the pandemic.

Priyanka Kanani
Yeah, unfortunately, COVID-19 has exacerbated the unequal burden of unpaid childcare for women. Before the pandemic, women across the globe spent an average of 26 hours per week on childcare alone, compared to 20 hours for men. This increased over COVID due to school closures, where women ended up spending 31 hours a week on average, which is why it’s known as the 2nd shift. The increased burden of unpaid childcare has led to large numbers of women dropping out of the workforce during the pandemic, which has negative impacts on businesses in terms of productivity and quality of work. Mothers of children under 12 for over 3% points, more likely to have left employment than fathers of children under 12. Between Q1 and Q2 of 2020, in comparison to those who did not have children under 12 were the gap between men and women was negligible.

Vayana Skabrin
Yeah, those figures are really striking, aren't they? They really highlight the scale of the issue and put things into perspective. So much more should be done in helping to address these challenges through pulling public policy levers, becoming a better employer, or even an understanding colleague, friend or family member. We all have a role to play.

Right, We’ve spoken in quite a lot of detail about the impact of mothers, but what about the 2nd group we briefly touched on earlier? What are the findings when we add that dimension of ethnicity?

Priyanka Kanani
When examining the data on employment outcomes in the UK, women from ethnic minorities are worse off than both white men and white women in terms of pay and employment levels. It is striking that on average, Women from Ethnic Minority groups are still more than a decade behind white women. In terms of unemployment figures and are proportionately more worse off now than they were in 2011 compared to white women. During the pandemic, the disparities in employment outcomes and pay widened between Women from Ethnic Minority groups compared to white men and women, as well as Men from Ethnic Minority groups. We touched more on this topic in our Business in Focus podcast, which delves more into the findings in this area. So I would highly encourage everyone to listen to that.

Vayana Skabrin
So we've discussed how we went into COVID-19 in a situation where women were already disadvantaged in terms of job security, social equalities and more, the existing disparities actually really widened. But let’s look to the future. As governments, businesses and policy makers plan for the Net Zero transition what can we do to make sure that women are better placed for any future changes? And Divya, I think I'd love to hear from you on this topic.

Divya Sridhar
So as we recover from the pandemic, one of the most significant forces shaping labour markets today and in the future is, of course, the climate crisis. And the steps have been taken to achieve net zero emissions across the globe. So for example, here in the UK, the government has committed to achieving net zero emissions by 2050, with an interim target of ending all sales of new petrol and diesel caused by 2030. So given that this movement is already driving changes and will continue to drive key changes to the labor market going forward, there's an urgent need to act now and deliver gender inclusive policies as we accelerate our actions to address the climate crisis.

Vayana Skabrin
Agreed, Divya the net zero transition is definitely on everyone's minds, be it policymakers, businesses, households, all of us. I guess the first question is, do we know what type of workers will benefit from the transition and where do women sit in the spectrum?

Divya Sridhar
Yeah, so if we look at the transition that's currently underway and will continue to happen, the changes in the way we produce and consume energy will be one of the key changes. So if we focus on just the energy sector's transition to net zero across the OECD, we find that the jobs created as a result of these changes will be concentrated in a few industries and these include utilities, construction and manufacturing. So, for example, new jobs may be created for wind turbine engineers or solar panel technicians, and therefore it will be the workers that are equipped with the skills and the experience to work in these sectors who will be able to benefit from these new jobs, and they will be the ones that are best placed to take up these new jobs.

And as it currently stands across the OECD countries, these sectors are male dominated, which means that the majority of workers in these sectors are currently men. So therefore men automatically stand to gain more than women in labor market outcomes from this transition to net zero. So good and perspective. For example, in construction, we expect men to take up nearly 6 times more of the newly created jobs than women. While in utilities and manufacturing, men can expect to get twice as many of the new jobs compared to women.

Vayana Skabrin
That's really interesting. Well, more than interesting, it's actually very, very concerning. Why is this the case?

Divya Sridhar
So I'd say there are two sides to it, perceptions around what a green job is, but also the lack of skills to be able to do one. So last year we did a Future of Government survey in the UK and that revealed that women are already feeling less prepared to take up green jobs compared to men. But due to lack of awareness but also of relevant skills. So for example, our survey showed us that only a 5th of women respondents said that they were aware of what green job opportunities were out there and that they had the skills needed for it. And this compared to a 3rd of men who were surveyed. And when we look at the current gender split across occupations as well, it's a similar story to what we found with industries. So our analysis shows that occupations such as assemblers and building and electrical trade workers are likely to see the largest growth in jobs as a result of the transition to net zero. And currently these occupations are male dominated across the OECD, so that this just means that as a result of experience and current positioning in the economy, women will automatically become less likely to be able to take up the new green jobs that the transition brings.

Vayana Skabrin
And could this mean that if we don't take the right adequate action, then the net zero transition might actually result in another step back from achieving gender equality in the workplace? Like we know, COVID-19 has pretty much already caused this. So it would surely be a double blow if it were to happen again.

Divya Sridhar
Yeah, unfortunately that's exactly the case. So if we look at the current state as of 2020, there were around 21% more men employed compared to women across the OECD. And our analysis shows that if nothing is done to encourage more women to enter sectors where the net zero transition will likely create new jobs, then by 2030, this gap is expected to widen by a further 0.5 % points. And you know, while that might sound like a tiny increment when we consider that this 0.5 % point is actually a proportion of the total number of women currently employed across the OECD, we can see that the absolute number and the absolute widening of the gap is quite huge.

Vayana Skabrin
Yeah, I see. I guess my burning question given I'm a problem solver by nature, is what can we do about this? So what can be done by governments, businesses to actually prevent this from happening?

Divya Sridhar
So I think upskill is really at the heart of it. So governments should identify barriers that women face when entering green jobs and incorporate this into their policy solutions. So for example, it could be the case that historically female students have been less inclined to specialize in STEM subjects right from school going age. So encouraging greater uptake of these subjects from a young age might help fill the skills gap later on. Employers should also invest in training and mentorship programs that support workers to upskill in these areas. Tackling gaps in skills now is fundamental to ensuring that women and other minority groups are not left behind. As we move forward towards a net zero future.

Vayana Skabrin
Great point that Divya, I honestly wish we could discuss this for hours, but I do think that's all we probably have time for in this episode. I'm glad we've ended on a hopeful note with actions that we can be taking to address some of these challenges. But before we wrap up, I'm keen to just ask you guys one closing question to reward our lovely, lovely listeners who stay till the end.

So if you could summarize in one sentence the key point you would want listeners to take away from today's episode. What would it be? And let's start with you Divya.

Divya Sridhar
Yeah. Sure. So for me, I'd say when we entered the pandemic, women were at a disadvantage because of the types of jobs that they were currently in and we found that this had hugely disproportionate impacts. So we need to make sure that we take the necessary steps going forward to when the next big change comes around. For example, the change to a net zero world. This isn't repeated again.

Vayana Skabrin
Brilliant. Thanks Divya and Priyanka, sentence from you.

Priyanka Kanani
So for me, I think the main point would be that there is a role to be played by everyone. Governments need to provide the right enabling environment through gender inclusive policies, but businesses can also lead the way to make the workplace a better and more inclusive place for women.

Vayana Skabrin
Great. Thank you so much to our wonderful guests, Priyanka and Divya. It's been absolutely fantastic to have you on here and thank you to all of our listeners. If you'd like to read this brilliant report in more detail, you can just search PwC Women in Work Index 2022 on Google and you should find it. You can also listen to our other Business in Focus podcast titled The Impact of COVID-19 on Women in Work, and that discusses women in work but through a slightly different lens, as Priyanka mentioned earlier.

So be sure to give that listen, if you haven't already, and of course, if you like this podcast, please make sure to subscribe on iTunes or Spotify and get notified of future episodes. Thank you so much for listening.