How to Empower...People Networks

Transcript

Katy Bennett: Hello, and welcome to a special episode of the How to Empower Podcast Series. On today’s episode, we are joined by Suwei Jiang, Partner sponsor of the East and South East Asian Network. Nicky, a committee member of the Military Network here at PwC, and Riteesh Mishra, Senior Manager in our Inclusion, Culture and Wellbeing team, and overall People Network Lead at PwC.

Katy: Hi, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us today. Now, today in celebration of 175 years of PwC, we’ve got a very special episode where we’ll be talking about the important role that our People Networks play in supporting our employees and demonstrating care. People Networks, which may also be referred to as Employee Resource Groups, play a key role in creating an inclusive culture in the workplace. First, I’d like to start by asking each of you a bit more about your People Network and how you’ve been involved in it. So maybe I’ll start with Suwei.

Suwei Jiang: Thank you, Katy. We established the East and South East Asian People Network three years ago in 2021. Largely in response to post-pandemic, there was a lot of, or a higher level of, Asian hate crime in our community, if you remember. So there are lots of our people within the firm who have got that background in East and Southeast Asia, feeling particularly vulnerable in that macro environment. So we decided we should create a community, hence the People Network we established at the time. So I have been the sponsoring Partner for our ESEA Network since then, and I’m pleased to say over a three year period, we grew from scratch to over 1,000 members in that Network.

Katy: Nicky?

Nicky: So the Military Network was established in 2012 by Nigel Hutchinson, and it was mainly on focusing to support ex service members as they transition into civilian life and also supporting reservists who work within our business already in PwC and supporting them in their ongoing service in the different forces. I got involved back in 2023, so last year, mainly to kind of reach out for support actually around my husband’s own deployments. And I wanted to just understand kind of what we did in the Network and what that was going to look like. And since I’ve understood the wide expansive breadth of activities that we do in the Military Network. For example, we’re Gold Award holders for the Defence. We also signed the Armed Forces Covenant, quite a few years ago, which supports military personnel and spouses, as well as partners and dependents.

Katy: Great, Thanks, Nicky. And Riteesh.

Riteesh Mishra: Yes, actually we have 14 People Networks across the UK. I’m a member of all 14 Networks. And my role is, I work actually with the Network Chairs and all the Network Partner sponsors as part of the Inclusion, Culture and Wellbeing team to support how our Networks can deliver on inclusion. Our Networks overall actually started if memory serves us correctly through our archives at PwC in 2000, when what was then the Women’s Network was founded by around 30 really passionate females in the workplace who wanted to start the conversation of gender equality in the workplace, which then grew to be our Women’s network and now Gender Balance network. And that was also then shortly followed by what was GALE, which is now our Shine Network, which was a really passionate individuals who wanted to start a conversation about LGBTQ+ in the workplace. So in the early 2000s is when our People Networks originally started through a small group of passionate individuals, and fast forward to 2024, now, where we have 14 People Networks, over 12,000 of our UK colleagues are part of a Network. So over a span of 25 years, the Networks have grown considerably and my role is to try and support the leaders to ensure that they are delivering and supporting in the best way possible.

Katy: Thank you. Wow, 14 Networks. I know how much each Network does, so you must be pretty busy trying to be a member and support all of them. So I mean, thank you everyone for sharing your Networks and a bit of their history. I mean, what I’d be really interested to hear is just your own personal experience of working with the Network and how they’ve kind of provided support and care for you. Cause I know that’s such an important part of our Networks, and it’s something I hear all the time, you know, how different Networks have helped people through different moments in their lives. Suwei, maybe if I could start with you.

Suwei: Sure. I guess it’s probably a good starting point to remind ourselves why we set up the Network and what we are trying to achieve out of it. As I mentioned earlier, we set it up largely, initially, in response to what the macro environment was presenting us as a challenge. But our ultimate goals, though, I think are probably three-fold. So the first and foremost is about a community. So it’s creating a community within the firm where individuals either coming from East and South East Asia, so having the heritage, or any individuals who’ve got an interest or association with the region, will find a home within our PwC family, and finding a community where they can celebrate their culture, the history, and their particular way of thinking even within a community where they find is a safe environment to be doing so. That’s really, I think the first layer of our goal. Secondly, through that then is really raising awareness of the culture and also the kind of significance of how one might do things differently, both within the firm, but also externally with our clients, with the outside community. And then thirdly, I think there’s supporting the individuals within our community with their career progression. And, you know, we might come back a bit later to talk about this in a bit more detail. But I think, everybody is so different and we are all individuals. And people with a particular cultural background think differently, they do things slightly differently. So it’s how do we then support them in an environment like ours here in the UK with their career progression where their abilities can be identified, also recognized for the merits they bring to the firm and the value they bring to the firm? So, you know, within those three primary goals, my role as the sponsoring partner of the Network is really trying to cultivate a culture and also providing that environment where we could put together a bit of a leadership hub within that community to really carry out our initiatives to be able to achieve that goal both in the short term, but as well as in the long term.

Katy: Right. Thanks Suwei. And I think it’s a really helpful reminder of how many different things Networks do because sometimes you might be aware of an event or a particular activity, but actually it’s being that home and it’s helping people with their careers day in day out that can be so impactful. Nicky, I’d be really interested in hearing some of your kind of personal experiences.

Nicky: Thank you so much, Katy. I actually must agree with Suwei here because I think one of the most important things that happen in our Military Network is a similar thing of being understood and being seen and kind of validated the fact that even though you might be different, that you can kind of work in the same place and you can be supported. And I think I have personal experience of that during kind of active deployment of my husband, because it’s really hard to articulate what we kind of go through in military life. It’s a really different set of circumstances, and it’s quite alien to a lot of people. So trying to kind of talk to people about why I’m finding things difficult or why I don’t want to talk about the news at a minute, or why you know, I might find being on my own, very isolating. It’s quite a difficult thing to talk through because people don’t really understand. So having a Network that really can relate to that and understand how that impacts you and I’ve actually been there as well is really helpful. So I think I’m really fortunate in my role that I get to support other people who are spouses or partners or dependents. In the military life, but also see it from the other side of working with veterans who are still, you know, they can still reflect on their journeys, and reservists who are still actively being mobilised to support, you know, for example, COVID, when we went into the mass vaccines or a humanitarian aid, which were pulled into quite a bit. I think it’s amazing to see the breadth of care that I’ve received. But I think it’s worth mentioning that these don’t happen without effort, and there was a lot of unknowns when I came into the Network, because I was probably one of the first military spouses who said, actually, this is really hard, and I don’t know what support I’ll need from the firm, and I kind of want to work this out with the Military Network. So that’s what I tend to look at. But no matter how supportive the Network is or the Navy is or kind of my husband is, it doesn’t take away the worry or the concern you have for the loved one who’s away, and ultimately the fear that you don’t know whether or not they’re going to come back and work being able to support you in those moments, and the Network kind of coming together as one is really important and has shown that care to me as an individual.

Suwei: And actually, just listening to Nicky just now made me realise despite the fact that, on the face of it, a Military Network and ESEA Network are, you know, very different Networks. But there are some really fundamental similarities between our members. So you talked about, you know, feeling isolated when spouses are away, and our members living and working thousands of miles away from home has the same issue, and most of them during COVID period actually had to be stuck here for two, three years and not being able to go home because of travel restriction. So not having the family support network immediately available to them sometimes makes life really hard for them, you know, being here on their own. And Riteesh, I think, that’s probably what we often talk about is, you know, across the 14 People Networks, there are probably some underlying themes where we can tie up together, where the Networks can share experiences and actually create an even bigger community within the firm here.

Riteesh: Yeah, I totally agree with both Suwei and Nicky. I think Suwei summed up really nicely around sharing experiences in isolation across communities. So part of my role is to try and have Network leaders and their members collaborate and connect over often really difficult topics to discuss. Some of our faith-based Networks will deliver shared sessions to tackle some difficult conversations. And we are seeing more and more connection and collaboration to bridge that gap. Many people experience things, but often it’s shared in similar experiences. But I would like to quickly reiterate some of the points that Nicky and Suwei mentioned about almost the role of our Networks. What binds the Networks together? Not only as their experiences, but what they stand for. So it is creating a sense of community and belonging. It’s trying to inspire and support each other within the Networks, and also to raise awareness of diversity in the workplace. And I think a lot of our colleagues will probably be most aware of raising awareness through some of the events that the Networks deliver. But what our colleagues may not be aware of is how integral the Networks are to our inclusion strategy, for example, or our culture in the workplace. So our team in Inclusion, Culture and Wellbeing work directly with Network leaders to help shape some of our strategy around how we can improve our workplace adjustments policy or our overall enablement strategy. How do we support our colleagues in moments of crisis when things are happening outside of the firm? Often it is the Networks who we really rely on to provide that safe space, to provide a listening strategy, to make sure all of our people feel heard and supported. And also, it’s always amazing to see the work the Networks do to support our charities, our foundations, and working with clients. So all of those things are areas that I try and support the leadership of the Networks to deliver because a lot of this work I really believe is fundamental to our purpose in the workplace. And when you see what the Networks deliver, I think it really ties into both an individual purpose, but also our purpose as an organisation.

Katy: Thanks, Riteesh, and really kind of helpful to capture in a way all of the different things the Networks do, which I mean, when you start to hear examples from people, you realise how broad it is. And I was thinking actually in preparation for this. So hopefully, the listeners won’t be able to tell from my seamless interviewing style. Usually, I’m in the room at podcasting, but I’m not today because my son is unwell. The first thing I did was to get on the Parent and Carers Network website because the best way to find the PwC policy for the emergency childcare is through the signposting of that Network. Now, that is the most practical day-to-day example, and it’s nowhere near the kind of depth of care and community that some of these examples are talked about, but it does show just how much these Networks help everybody to be their best at work and just get on with their day.

Nicky: I was actually just going to follow up on that one because the Parent and Carers Network actually was one that we are looking quite closely at collaborating with the Military Network for joint deployments. Because if you have children, you actually end up in a situation where you become a single parent for, can be up to, six months, at times, sometimes even nine months. And to have to adapt your lifestyle to that is quite a challenge. And I think it’s an absolute credit to anybody who is a single parent to be able to manage that day-to-day. But when it’s not your norm and you’re having to adapt to it, it’s incredibly challenging to support both the child, but also your work and other family kind of commitments. So one of the things we’re looking at is actually a collaboration between the Parents and Carers Network and the Military Network into how we can actually support people during that time frame because it is such a unique situation. And although there might be similarities with other Networks as to how that could be a challenge, it’s not one we’ve kind of found an answer to yet.

Katy: Thanks. Thanks, Nicky. It’s a really kind of nice example of what Riteesh was talking about of the collaboration between the Networks, and you know, the reality is everybody has many different parts to themselves and experiences, and I can see that finding those shared kind of goals would be really impactful. You’ve sort of stole a bit of my next question, so I’m going to ask the others. And if you think of many others, please come back, which is you know, what’s going on in the future. So do you have any particular initiatives or goals planned for the Network that you could share with us for a bit of a sneak peek of what the future for promoting diversity inclusion at PwC might look like?

Suwei: I guess, if you remember back, where I said, we got sort of three pillars of objectives: creating community, raising awareness, but also helping with personal progression. We’ve got initiatives in all three of those ongoing. And then particularly, I just want to maybe raise on the progression side, we’ve had a very successful three months rolling mentoring program since the outset of setting up the Network three years ago. So this is whereby we would voluntarily match up mentors and mentees on the three months cycle. So everybody then gets a chance to then rotate to a different mentor or stick with the same one if they want to, but really helping people to and increase their networks within the firm, getting exposed to other different service lines and business units where they don’t sit and they are not familiar with. So, you know, an associate can have a consulting manager or senior manager as their mentor and also increasing their level of knowledge with the firm to really broaden their horizon. And that’s been very successful, and our focus in that career and mentoring pillar right now for the next sort of three to five years is to make sure, one, preserve what’s really been going well within that initiative. And secondly, looking very proactively at other Networks experience, so whether there is anything that we could learn from the others. And thirdly, looking at collaborating with other Networks in terms of that sort of mentoring and a mentee relationship and really increasing the pool of mentors and mentees within that kind of wider community. And then the fourth thing that Riteesh and I and amongst other sponsoring Partners have been very proactively discussing is mutual mentoring or what it used to be called reverse mentoring. Now that very much then tied into the second pillar I just talked about - raising awareness - that I think ties in very nicely is actually making people or the wider community, especially people at senior level more aware of the, you know, individual significance of, you know, being a particular type of background, working in a firm, what it feels like. What does it mean for you day-to-day? And then just sort of getting that educational process going a bit quicker and a bit wider. So I don’t know whether Riteesh, you’d like to maybe expand on that kind of mutual mentoring that we’ve been talking about, which we feel particularly excited about.

Riteesh: Yeah, thanks, Suwei. Mentoring, sponsorship, allyship, coaching - they are all things that I hear a lot about in my role, and particularly the importance of some of those things to minority ethnic colleagues who come from particular communities. And I’ll say, especially those who are actually coming to the UK and often don’t have that support network. And as a firm that is so big, sometimes we can’t provide those opportunities to every employee. So what we’re trying to do as a firm is almost use the Networks as a platform to create not necessarily overly formal relationships, but more opportunities for people to mentor and be mentored and use that as a way to start collaborating and focus on this hot topic and theme that is intersectionality that you hear a lot about. We want to promote that through perhaps Network members being mentored, by members of different Networks. So you can start to understand one’s background, but also some of those shared experiences. So that’s an exciting project that we have working on at the moment. I think also for me in my role, what I’ve seen a really big focus on over the last probably 18 months is how, what happens outside of this firm, how much it impacts our people in their every day. And it’s becoming more and more clear that the Networks have such an important role to play so that people when they come into the workplace, they feel supported and they feel cared for. And with that, I think requires a lot of governance and support to make sure that people feel they can be themselves in the workplace, but also understand what the role of the employer is and is not. And sometimes, I think that boundary has been challenged, not just our organisation, many. So I think that would be a key role in the next, probably, 12 months, especially as, you know, you see the social geopolitical world becoming more and more polarised, unfortunately, more and more binary. So it’s becoming harder to have, probably, debates and healthy discussion often in the workplace. And that then can become very difficult for leaders to often manage their teams. There’s quite a lot of work that I think we need to focus on in that regard. Probably the last thing I’d say is the importance of leadership and visible leadership to support our Networks and having leaders that do not necessarily come from a particular community at an event or at a real key date in the diary for a People Network. A visible sponsorship and allyship, I think helps build the confidence of the community in the workplace that they can feel connected and they can feel like they have a place in a workplace.

Katy: Thanks, Riteesh, completely echo your reflection. Something, you know, in my day job, I talk about more and more is this question of what do you do as an employer in this very complex world that we live in now and how do you create inclusion and support that while also understanding the huge diversity of people that you have. Thanks for that. Nicky, I almost kind of cheated you by deciding that your answer was the work with the Parents and Carers Network, but is there anything else you wanted to add about what’s coming next for your Network?

Nicky: Yes, thank you, Katy. I won’t take too long on this one, because I absolutely agree. I think the collaboration was just such a good example. I wanted to flag it. I think one of the things that we’re looking at as a Network at the minute is the social mobility of how people can transition from a military lifestyle into kind of the civilian world and into the corporate world and understanding kind of what air cadets, or for example, or reservists, or veterans go through in that transition into a very different lifestyle, and also they tend to come from very different socioeconomic backgrounds. That transition is something we’re really wanting to work to understand and how we can support people through that recruitment process. So, for example, kind of back to the mentoring that Suwei mentioned, we look at a mentoring scheme externally. So it’s veterans that already are here with us or have a military affiliation, supporting individuals who are leaving the military and working with them to write their very first CV. You know, they might be 45 and they’ve never written one to help them do interview prep and understand how they’re going to kind of attempt to kind of breach that boundary into the corporate world. And we, to a degree, don’t actually care whether they come and join us at PwC or whether they get a job somewhere else because it’s more about supporting that transition into the civilian world. So that’s one of the things we’re really working on, and it’s such a small cohort that we’re doing at the minute, but we really want to keep focusing on that.

Katy: Thanks, Nicky. It’s really striking to hear these similarities and themes coming out between the Networks. I wanted to move on a bit, I guess, just to talk. I suppose I’ve reflected a little more generally on the Networks and how they kind of strategically fit into our goals. So, Riteesh, I think you are in the hot seat now, but Suwei and Nicky, I’m hoping you kind of chime in and give reflections along the way. But Riteesh, I suppose I wanted to start by asking in what ways do you think that the existence, the activity of our Networks contribute to PwC’s broader goals and values? Do you think our clients or other businesses would benefit from having Networks in the same way we do here at PwC?

Riteesh: I think we’ve spoken a lot, some examples of how Networks can demonstrate almost the business case for their existence. But I think on top of perhaps what we’ve already discussed, the constant feedback and sentiment inclusion culture, people related teams can get from a really diverse group of individuals through the Networks, I think it’s valuable to not just your inclusion strategy, but how you can deliver to your clients, how you can get real time feedback on really key topics, commercial topics as well. So I think that’s something that a really strong group of Networks can also add, so being that feedback channel. And also the second question about clients and Networks. I would say in my role, every day, we speak to the recruitment teams or the attraction teams about how, how can we showcase the work that Networks do? Because they are that almost often the best way to demonstrate your culture is somebody’s experience in the workplace. And maybe 10 years ago, 15 years ago, when I was looking for a job, I didn’t maybe necessarily look for the Networks or Employee Resource Groups. I think most candidates now who want to join a firm expect there to be Employee Resource Groups, Networks. They want them to be visible. That will help the individual feel like this is the right culture and fit for them. So I think, visibly, the importance is huge. And I know most of our clients do have Employee Resource Groups or Networks. I speak often to many of them because we have quite an established model and governance setup here, and I think it’s a great demonstration of how important we see people and inclusion. But our clients do share some of the same challenges we do and some of the same opportunities. And it’s often a really fruitful conversation to understand how the role of Networks has evolved over 15 years. It’s gone from being a way to bring people together socially to then raise awareness of diversity inclusion to now providing a critical support Network to our people and being almost an employee voice group for key teams in PwC to deliver on inclusion. So I think the role of the Networks is becoming even more important. And with that extra responsibility, is probably more requirement to have a clear strategy, clear role in unit, and have leaders such as Nicky and Suwei, who are part of the committee that can really align with what we do in the Inclusion, Culture and Wellbeing team.

Nicky: I actually really agree with everything you just said, and I think it’s so important that people don’t just look at a business as a salary and a benefits package anymore. We look at it from a real cultural perspective, and will you fit with the business? And I think that’s really important. What I think is quite significant in kind of the work we do in consulting is that we work directly with clients all the time, and a lot of the People Networks have a degree of real kind of SME knowledge in certain areas which can support that kind of client conversation and not just make our people feel heard and seen, but also our clients. So the Military Network is a really good example of that because we work quite heavily in the defence space, supporting the wider organisations within our clients. And having that knowledge and understanding and I suppose credibility within those areas really leverage those relationships and allow people to trust us and understand that we do understand where they’re coming from. But I understand that obviously with clients, it’s something which we have to be very careful of that we understand where they’re coming from, but at the end of the day, they are able to articulate that better than we are.

Suwei: And Nicky, just picking up on your client point. It makes absolute business sense for us to be focusing on our people. You know, we have a lot of inbound clients coming from other parts of the world investing in the UK. So we need that cultural diversity. We need to have people who understand our clients’ culture, speak our clients’ language, to be able then to help them to expand their business in the UK and be successful here. So I was recently in the Southeast Asia region, visiting clients and visiting our firms out there. I had quite a lot of requests from clients as well as our account partners to say, would you have people who come from Malaysia or Singapore sitting in the UK, who you can put on particular clients to work with them because it would really value having somebody who can speak their language and understand how they operate. So I think it absolutely makes business sense to be doing so. And also, I think for me, diversity and inclusion is never a box ticking exercise because you know, we are 175-years-old this year. We wouldn’t have done this and achieved what we’ve achieved without our people. People go to the heart of our business. So as a Partner in the firm and alongside my fellow Partners, we’re not only guardians of the current business. We are also creators of the legacy we can leave behind. So, if we look at the next 175 years, people will remain at the heart of our business, and it’s really vitally important that we look after them.

Katy: Thank you all and Suwei, I love that last reflection and reminder of why we’re doing this because I think there is a risk sometimes in the to do list of everything we want to do to be the best we can, that it can turn into a box ticking exercise or it can feel like that and a reminder of why we’re doing this is really important? I’ve seen some great examples of Networks, working with organisations, working with clients, working with organisations that aren’t clients to kind of share ideas, to put on events together to collaborate because actually, that’s a really powerful thing, too, that helps us go back into the communities. And I know Riteesh mentioned the kind of community aspect earlier. Having touched on other organisations, do we get organisations coming to us, saying, how do we manage a Network? Why have you got such a strong set of People Networks?

Riteesh: Yeah, the answer to that is yes. Not only clients, but some of our charity partners. And I think what that signifies to me, a couple of things, PwC is known in the marketplace, especially professional services as having a really well connected group of employee Networks that are clear on their strategy. They’re well governed, they’re aligned to our overall inclusion strategy, and that’s not an easy place to get to, and that’s taken a number of years. So I think we should as a firm be proud of that. So we do often get questions and advice from big banks, retail organisations, how do you manage that strategy? How do you get the best out of Networks? Often some of the questions or how do you channel that energy that the Network members have to volunteer their time to get the most impact for our business and our people. And because we have such a diverse group across various regions, we share some of those same challenges. So it’s not just about us as PwC leading the way. I’m talking often to other clients to help understand how they can manage some of their challenges, one of our’s being we have so many fantastic regional offices. How do we make sure that our Networks are present in all offices, so everyone feels connected, even if there’s only one member of the Military Network or the East South East Asia Network in a single office. So I think they are great conversations to have. I find myself speaking to clients in between engagements as well, it’s a great way to stay connected and people don’t always want to talk simply about the transactional work and projects you’re working on. They want to know a bit more and be curious. And often Networks and inclusion and diversity in general is a great platform for conversation for that.

Suwei: And every single member of our community are great ambassadors of what we do in the firm as well. So we do a lot of events, joint events with our clients. So both in sort of financial services, professional services sectors, but also some of the clients in the regions as well. And we also participate in quite a lot of, you know, sort of widely respected external events like the annual UK Dragon Boat racing on the Thames. We sent in a team this year. They actually won gold as well. You know, very proud of what they managed to achieve, and the Badminton competition, you know, all sorts of different things. But then, you know, they are carrying the PwC flag everywhere they go, and they are inevitably promoting the great work we are doing within our Networks. And most recently, we also did something together with the gender balance Network when we launched or PwC launched the Women in Work index and really highlighting female, as well as ethnic female, really the pay disparity. The gap is actually increasing rather than decreasing. So we did a lot of work around that and then, you know, got together about 100 people in the room from various different organisations and with other charities as well to discuss the issue. So, you know, real really made quite a big impact around that, too. So, you know, I think those are the little things we can do months and months out to really kind of do more external collaboration, but also going back to what I talked about in terms of the external awareness raising.

Nicky: Definitely. That sounds amazing. I wasn’t actually aware of that myself, and I know it’s something I’m following quite closely, which is, you know, the gender pay gap and the conversation. And I think some of the work that we do with some of the charities around kind of women, and I know obviously we then brought in the additional piece, which is mental health recently, I think is so important. And I think the impact we can have as individuals, as well as as a wide Network is so important. One of the pieces that I have been astounded at kind of learning about whilst I’ve been getting involved in the Military Network over the last 18 months is the work we do with the charity REACT. So REACT is a charity which supports fast response humanitarian aid. So we’ve got 21 responders within the PwC business who will kind of get involved and support whatever is going on in the world, and obviously, with quite a difficult geopolitical situation at the minute, we’ve got some horrific conflicts going on across the world, and being able to support that as individuals, but also with the PwC brand behind that show kind of how we care, and also that then resonates with our clients, but also resonates with our wider businesses.

Katy: Thanks, Nicky. Thanks, everybody. Now, I’m now going to ask you a question that I get asked a lot. I’m sure you get asked it too. So I just know we have listeners from all sorts of different organisations. So I just thought I’d ask it so everyone could hear the answer, which is, I sometimes talk to people and they say, “It’s amazing what you do at PwC. We wish you could do something like that, but you have thousands of employees. You have a whole infrastructure. We want to help people, we want to do more, but we’ve got 200 people or we don’t have anyone who wants to go and set these Networks up. What would you suggest we do?”

Riteesh: That is a very good question. Sometimes when you work in such a big organisation. You can lose sight of how it can impact, in a smaller organisation. I think it always comes back down to an individual’s passion and almost tapping into their purpose, even in a small organisation. It will be impossible to probably have 14 well established Networks, but you will still have members in a small organisation who will have probably part of themselves that may not feel fully comfortable in the workplace. So I think it’s firstly trying to find the individuals who have that passion to make a difference and make a change. And I think as leaders, especially small organisations, you really need to give the permission for that. You need to role model. You need to almost authentically yourself as a leader, express the importance. I think if you are not aware of it yourself as a leader, it’ll be difficult, perhaps, particularly small organisations to feel like you can have the permission to set something up. I think also, Katy, is always really hard actually in a world, which is full of, you know, return on investment, what is the impact and most of the time that is based on numbers and data. Sometimes it’s really hard to quantify how supportive somebody feels, how much they feel like they can belong in an organisation. Do they feel a sense of community? How do you get data on that? Sometimes it’s difficult. And to get to the heart of that, I think you need communities who represent and can have, you know, honest open conversations in a safe space.

Suwei: And this is probably where I think collaboration is really crucial. Small organisations do not have to feel that they are on their own. They have to set up a well formed machinery internally like we do. I think a lot of collaboration with external resources is probably the key to their first step or even success. And us as larger employers, you know, we have a PwC Foundation as a charitable venture. We actually sponsor quite a lot of smaller charities and organisations. So by way of an example, recently, in the last two years, we have been supporting a charity called Chinese Women in the City, a sort of self formed volunteer based organisation that was attracting or supporting ethnic Chinese females working in the financial services industry. So we are providing a very small kind of funding for them, but more importantly open up that Network access both within PwC, but also with other financial services organisations providing them with a platform and then resources and Networks for their members to be linking into. So I think these are the type of resources and Networks that smaller organisations can perfectly tape into. And then with larger employers like us and amongst many others who would want to collaborate, then I think that provides that kind of ecosystem, if you like, to help the smaller organisations to tackle some of the challenges you just talked about.

Nicky: Definitely. And I think also in smaller organisations, sometimes the most important step is to start having the conversation and start, you know, talking about things that we didn’t used to, maybe 20, 30, 40 years ago, bring into the workplace, but we kind of now talk about, and we share more about ourselves, probably with our kind of colleagues and also with our clients. And starting that conversation, it doesn’t have to be a big movement. It can be one person. And that one conversation that you have every day, can actually make a big impact on other people’s lives. So I think even though we’re a big organisation, the most rewarding piece I get out of working in the Network is when I speak to one individual and I can help that one individual. So if we’re able to kind of show that as a business, I think you can do that in any size organisation.

Katy: Thank you. And just I suppose to emphasise that everyone listening has just heard us talk about our amazing Networks at PwC, how much we want to share what we’re doing and work with our clients. So on the assumption, most people talking knows somebody at PwC. You know, there’s never any harm in saying, I hear you’ve got a great gender balance Network. Do you know if there are any events coming up that are open to us? Because Suwei has talked about that brilliant one the other week around the pay gap among South East Asian women, and it’s a really powerful statistics that were in that. It’s always worth asking. Now, before we start to wrap up, I had one last question for you, Riteesh, which is kind of going back to our 175th anniversary. How do you see the role of the Networks continuing to change? The way earlier was talking about the legacy in the future of PwC. Where do you see the Networks going next?

Riteesh: So I’ve been lucky enough given it’s our 175th anniversary as a firm to almost go through the archives and look at how our Networks have developed over the past kind of 20, 25 years. And it’s quite clear they’ve moved not just in our organisation, but in the industry from initially Networks being more, you know, ways for people to socialise and come together and start conversations through to, you know, having really big topical conversations around diversity and inclusion and becoming more of a safe space and where people come to feel connected. I think the role will continue to evolve. I think the importance will be organisations being really clear on how Networks can best support them in their people priorities and how Networks can have the most impact. I think especially in the current climate it’s quite easy. For passionate members of Networks to have their energy go towards perhaps activities that won’t necessarily have the best and biggest impact. We know that people want to feel supported, mentored, coached, sponsored. We know that people want to feel safe in the workplace. We know that organisations need to constantly be challenged in how they evolve their inclusion practices and policies. So those are some of the key areas I think Networks can and should prioritise kind of their role and their work as we move forward. And I think it’s going to become even more important that businesses become aware of how Networks can support them and almost utilise the communities and groups in the best way possible. And without a strategy around that, it can become quite difficult. So I think we’ll see more and more conversations around Employee Resource Groups and People Networks over the coming years.

Katy: Thank you, Riteesh. I’m very mindful of time. I feel like we could keep talking about this topic for hours and hours more, but assuming that no one’s going to listen to a five hour podcast. I just thought I’d kind of wrap us up here, and just as we close, I just wanted to ask each of you, are there any messages that you’d like to share with the listeners out there about getting involved in a People Network or maybe even starting one if there isn’t one where they work?

Riteesh: Yeah, I would happily start. So I probably have what I say to everyone is that People Networks are open to everyone in the firm. So you do not need to be a practising Muslim to be part of the Muslim Network. You do not need to be a Christian to be part of the Christian Network. They are open to everyone. I work with the leaders of each Network on a daily basis, and they are so passionate they put so much time to make people feel connected. I think we owe it to them for more of our colleagues to take that leap of faith and join a Network if you’re not already part of one. And if you are part of one or two, challenge yourself to become part of all 14, that would be that, you know, my one ask and action for everyone, if you could, because I think that’s a demonstration of all of our colleagues to want to be part of an inclusive workforce.

Nicky: I think that’s so important. I think the curiosity would be the bit that I would say to people that it really helps. So being curious about different you know, you would use the example of religion there, but where people come from, people’s culture, background, whether or not they’ve had different experiences to you. And I think what we can learn from each other, and therefore, we can learn how to support each other better within those kind of networks. That’s probably what I want to see a little bit more of. And if I use the example of into the future, I am really quite positive and feel really enthusiastic about working with PwC and potentially out externally as well, about how we support people within our organisation and in our Network specifically better and that conversation is why I feel empowered to kind of talk about it more because trying to start the understanding from something that is quite alien to other people, is really difficult. And, you know, my example of being on my own for six months, eight months of a year and seeing potentially the person you love maybe for a week of that, that’s something that’s not relatable. So being curious and asking questions and asking it in a positive way, I think is really great.

Suwei: And just building on what Riteesh and Nicky just said, absolutely agree, I think every single Network is for everyone. And, you know, I belong to several of them. And Riteesh you said you belong to all 14. And, a lot of our members also have many different aspects of their role in life, so they also choose to join many Networks. I remember at the ESEA Network, first anniversary in 2022, we had an event, and I was asked a question by a fresh graduate joining PwC. He asked me, Suwei, how do you see success for the ESEA Network in ten years time, say, for example. And, very controversially, I said to him at the time, I said, I hope when I retire from the firm, we would not need this Network anymore, so I would work myself out of this sponsoring Partner role. And by that, I don’t really mean that we don’t want communities for our people anymore. I really meant to say that I wish PwC is a bigger community on its own for every single one of our people, because everyone is different. Every individual is an individual. It doesn’t really matter what aspects of life we carry, what background we come from. The ultimate solution for us is everyone can have the confidence coming in to work every day and being themselves. If we can create that, maybe not in ten years, that maybe it’s too optimistic on my part. But if we can have that as a goal, then we will be able to create a wonderful environment for every single one of our people.

Katy: Thank you. What a goal. I really hope we reach it. And finally, so a question we ask everybody who comes on this podcast is what makes you feel empowered personally? Nicky, maybe we’ll start with you.

Nicky: I feel empowered because of how I’ve come into the Network. One of the things that I think I started by reaching out and asking for help. And that was quite a scary moment for me to say, actually, I don’t know how I’m going to deal with the next six months. And I’d like some help from people who’ve been there. And the response I’ve got, the overwhelming sense of care and people trying to support me, even if they didn’t know how, I think has empowered me to actually challenge as a business, how can we support people in very specific, different circumstances that are personal to them. And I think I’m empowered to kind of reach out to those individuals, and even if we can’t support them as a business, support them as Nicky, the individual, because I can relate to what they’ve gone through. And I think if we can do more collaboration, and I can work more with the different Networks we have in the business, I’m hopeful that that will then lead to bigger conversations and more of a community around this.

Riteesh: I think when I reflect on the question, what makes me feel empowered is me coming into the workplace every day and not feeling like I need to be something or someone else, feeling I can be comfortable in myself and who I am. And I think what enables me to feel like that is the culture that the firm creates, not just in the office, but also virtually. And so the more I can do to help that, the more I can help others do that. That’s what really empowers me because Suwei mentioned earlier, everything we do people we see in any organisation, it’s about the legacy that people leave and it’s about the people. And I think people is the thing that empowers me and me being my true self is what empowers me to come into work every day.

Suwei: And just building on what Riteesh said, for me, being female, being ethnic minority, having the privilege of having worked for the firm for 26 years and 13 years being a Partner in that sort of position, I feel a great sense of responsibility because we don’t have many people like me in the firm yet. But that empowers me to really do something about the situation we currently have and empower others to make a change for the better in the future. And that for me is a sense of responsibility about equally empowerment I carry every day and just wanting to do good and do the right thing by our people, and ultimately also by our client, I think, in the firm, and that really is something that sort of keeps me going every day.

Katy: Thank you, everybody. And with that, we come to the close of our special episode of the How to Empower Podcast. Thank you to our speakers for their time, stories, and insight, and to you, our listeners. Thanks for tuning in and don’t forget to share your thoughts and stories on social media using the hashtag #How to Empower.