How to empower... suicide prevention
Series 4 Episode 1
Trigger Warning: This episode deals with the topic of suicide.
In the first episode of series 4 of the How to Empower podcast series, new host Katy Bennett, spoke with Alice Hendy, Founder and CEO of suicide prevention charity R;pple, and Sean Maywood, a Mental Health First Aid Instructor at PwC. Alice shares her inspiration for starting R;pple following the suicide of her brother, and both Sean and Alice provide practical advice on how you can start a conversation with someone you might be concerned for. To speak to someone for more support, text Shout on 85258, a confidential 24/7 text message service, call the Samaritans on 116123, or you can download the stay alive app, which is packed full of useful information to help you stay safe. You can also check out the R;pple website.
Transcript
Katy Bennett: Hello, welcome to this new series of the How to Empower podcast. I'm delighted to introduce myself, Katy Bennett as the new host for this season. As with the previous series, we'll be looking to lead the way in having difficult conversations and hopefully empowering others to continue these conversations beyond this podcast. Before we start this episode of How to Empower, we will begin with a warning. This episode discusses the topic of suicide. This is a really challenging topic and although the conversation will be based around ways to reduce risk, we want to ensure you're aware of your own well-being and sources of support. Please only join this podcast if you're feeling well enough to do so. We will share sources of support at the end of the podcast, and you may wish to skip forward to these before listening to the main content. Today, I'm joined by the wonderful Alice Hendy, the founder and CEO of Ripple suicide prevention charity, and Sean Maywood, a Mental Health First Aid Instructor here at PwC. Alice, if I can start with you, can you tell us a bit about your story and what lets you found in your charity.
Alice Hendy: Thanks Katie and thank you so much for having me today. So I started Ripple as my charity in 2020. And I decided to set up the charity because in November of 2020, I lost my brother Josh to suicide. He was 21 years old, my only sibling. And when I went through my brother's phone and his laptop and his technological devices really, after he passed away, I found that Josh had been looking at some really harmful material on the internet, not just to do with how to end his life, but he was even provided with tips, encouragement, even pain scales for each method of suicide to help him make a decision. And I was really shocked actually that nothing existed to redirect anybody who might be feeling that low and conducting those searches online to a better place, a more healthy, supportive environment. And that really is what Ripple is all about. It's about interrupting harmful searches and signposting them to get support that they need.
Katy: Thank you so much for being here, for sharing that story today. And this is about How to Empower and the story of you've done with Ripple, is incredible. So, thank you and we'll be coming back to you to learn more. But first, Shawn, could you introduce yourself?
Sean Maywood: Yeah, so Sean Maywood, when I joined the firm in 2016 and soon after I joined, I attended a wonderful course called mental health first aid. And at the end of the course, you're asked how you're going to take that forward. And there were 12 excellent volunteers, but with a firm of several thousand people, it was clear that we needed more. And I was a teacher in a previous life. And I put my hand up to volunteer if, if there were messages that we needed to get around to improve attitudes towards mental health, I'd be keen to do that. And about a year later I was asked to train as a Mental Health First Aid Instructor. So, I'm externally accredited for that. And that is a big part of my role now that I'm in the firm, is delivering that Mental Health First Aid training.
Katy: Brilliant. I mean, as someone who works at PwC, I'm delighted that you and it exists. It's brilliant and we'll be coming back to you for more thoughts on that. I wanted to start with actually something I asked you both when we were preparing for this, which is, I kind of said, and I suspect our listeners might feel the same. I'm so nervous about saying the wrong thing. What's the right language here? What would you suggest? I felt really, I felt empowered by the answers that you both gave me. So, Alice can maybe start with you and ask you that question. What, is there a right or wrong thing to say? What would you say?
Alice: Yeah, sure. I think I'll start by saying that I was certainly somebody who used to say these things before I lost my brother to suicide. So, I think I just want to be really clear that if somebody is saying these terms, it's not a criticism, it's all around education and awareness. One of the key things for me, which I've learnt since the passing of Josh, is the term committed suicide. So committed indicates that there's a crime that's happened. Suicide actually hasn't been a crime since the 1960s. We don't say committed cancer, committed a stroke, and therefore we should not ever say committed suicide. Instead, we need to be using terms such as died by suicide. Instead, it just really reduces the amount of stigma that there is surrounding the subject. Another key one from me before I pass over to Sean for his thoughts is methods of suicide. Avoid talking about methods of suicide at all costs. Not only because. It's a tough lesson to be honest, but also because it's extremely triggering, particularly if somebody has been bereaved by suicide, to talk about, to talk about those methods. So, my advice would be to try and avoid those, the way you can particularly if you're around somebody who's lost somebody in this way.
Katy: Thank you, and Sean?
Sean: Yeah. I mean, I think one of the things here is that we need to be quite brave. Here it is, It is scary for us to talk about suicide, but if you listen to people, when you hear people's experiences of it, there'll be, there'll be very clear that being reasonably direct and empathetic at the same time, is actually what they want if you're, if you're going to support someone on those specific terms committed, as Alice mentioned. Absolutely right. The other one that we can fall into a trap of using is successful or unsuccessful when we apply that to the suicide. And so, as Alice said, if we can have that language where it's died by suicide, attempted suicide. So, you're very clear and direct with it. Then that's the best thing. I also would really urge people not to be so frightened of the topic that you don't say anything at all because that is as damaging, if not more.
Katy: Yeah. Thank you and I completely understand that. And I suppose it's why it's so great that we're doing this podcast because talking about it is so important. And I suppose with that, Alice, if it's okay I wanted to come back to you and just hear a bit more about Josh's story. And I'm sure there'll be people listening who will be wondering, what could they do in those situations where there are signs that you saw? You know, what can you share?
Alice: Yeah. This is a hard one for me because I feel ,and I think I will always feel, that I missed signs with my brother. And so, for me, I feel like one of the main reasons I've built this charity. One of the reasons I talk about my own experiences now is to stop this happening to other people. In terms of the signs in my brother that I now recognize that I perhaps didn't at the time. Weight gain was a massive one. Now that could be any change in weight. It could be somebody perhaps choosing not to eat. It could be somebody going the other way and overeating. If it's not their normal habits, then that's potentially a sign. For my brother, he was also making quite a significant number of changes to his appearance. So as an example, he was a 21-year-old boy who was very concerned with how he looked most of the time. But then towards the time when Josh was feeling suicidal, he was shaving his hair off completely. And With his weight gain, he wasn't really paying much attention to his hygiene. He was sleeping a lot. He was very snappy. His mood changes. You couldn't say anything to him without getting your head bitten off to be honest stat on occasions. And he had tried to take his own life on a couple of occasions prior to when he did. So, They really were the main signs that I saw him and my brother. Some of them obviously recognized and some of them I didn't recognise until it was too late.
Katy: Thank you for sharing that and I know you spoke in your introduction about the role of the internet and technology and kind of where that led you to with ripple and with your, your charity. I mean, what can organisations do to help with this?
Alice: So firstly, conversations like this are crucial. So I think, keep talking about it. As Sean said earlier, be direct and actually have that conversation. I've had friends that after 20 years of friendship no longer know how to talk to me because they don't want to say the wrong thing. So instead, they say nothing at all, which actually makes me feel even more isolated and alone. So, I think just actually have that conversation and try to be direct with the person as Sean was mentioning. In terms of what other things businesses can do from a Ripple perspective, you could deploy our charitable technology. Ripple is a browser extension. It can be downloaded on your browser of choice. So, Google Chrome, Microsoft Edge, Opera, Safari, Firefox. And once it's downloaded, it means that if anybody was to go online and conduct a similar search to what my brother was looking at. Ripple would intercept that search and instead redirect that person to a message of hope that things will get better and signpost them to a selection of mental health resources that they can access both now and in the longer term. And from a business perspective, it is working. It’s now has over 1 million downloads. Since May 2021. Its intercepted over 6,000 genuine, harmful online searches. And even though we don't track or monitor any personally identifiable information, we've had now, as of last week, about 25 people approach us directly to tell us that they are still here because Ripple intercepted them at their most vulnerable point.
Katy: I mean wow, I’m kind of getting chills, hearing those statistics, that is incredible. And what an amazing use of technology with something positive. What else are we doing at PwC?
Sean: I mean, clearly the training that we've been doing in Mental Health First Aid. So we've had more than 600 people trained in the two day Mental Health First Aid course, but many, many more in mental health awareness. We partnered with the Samaritans some time ago as well. They produced a series of learnings called well-being in the workplace, that's available to all firms to improve listening skills. And I think to Alice’s point, it is hard to talk to someone about suicide, whether it's someone who's experiencing it themselves, suicidal thoughts, or whether they've been bereaved by suicide. But I think we need to remember the adage that comes effectively from the surroundings which you're there to listen to understand, not to be understood. And so, it's not what you say. It's how well you listen to that person. I would urge everyone who's naturally concerned about having a conversation to remind themselves of that fact.
Katy: Yeah. Thank you. And Alice, I guess you talked about the signs you saw and Josh, you talked a little bit about the experience of being bereaved. What would you suggest for someone who wants to help, perhaps a colleague, a friend who's been bereaved. What can they do?
Alice: Yeah, It’s a really good question and it's tough. It's really hard for that person to know what to do, what to say. I think from my own personal experience, I'll just talk about what some of my friends did for me that I really appreciated, at what was the worst time of my life and continues to be. My parents and I were not eating. In the immediate aftermath of being told by the police that they had found my brother. So, my friends were, rather than imposing on us, they were turning up on my doorstep with food, supermarket deliveries, Domino's pizzas on occasions. And even if we ate one slice of that pizza, that was progress for us at that time. They felt like they didn't want to intrude, so they were just letting us know that they were there for us. Other ways that my friends helped me; they would check in on me and they wouldn't judge me if I didn't reply or if I perhaps took a bit longer to reply than I normally did, or if it was very blunt one-word answers back. But just knowing that they were there when I'm ready was really powerful and meant a lot to me. They also invited me out to things that were normal. So coffee trips, lunches out with friends. They knew I wasn't going to go. But just getting and receiving that invitation as if things were normal made me for a short period feel normal because when you're going through something like that, the world stops for you. So, anything that you can cling onto to be normal helps. So those are just a few of the things that my friends did for me. I will always be so grateful for them because they helped me through.
Katy: Thank you. Sean, I guess a similar question, maybe a different perspective. And I know you work a lot in the training space around what to do. If I was worried about a colleague at work, what would you suggest I do?
Sean: You need to talk to them. Don't be frightened to talk to them. Talk to them about how they are feeling. Ask them, are they feeling safe? So actually, the first thought that we will have will be to turn around and change the subject. But actually, we need to find out how are they feeling, what's their risk level at the moment around the thoughts that they're having and seek, seek support. That support could be direct, and it could be that you are worried for the safety of that person there and then and calling 999 is the action that you need. But it may be that that person's risk level is not immediate. And so, what are the other support avenues that are available to them? Have they been talking with their family? Have they got access to their GP, to a private medical health care scheme and employee assistance program number. The Samaritans, to call them. We'll talk later about it. I know we're going to mention shouts as that is another service that is there. I think also, if people want to go to a trusted source, I would recommend the Zero Suicide Alliance is a group with the NHS Trusts who've got together. And there is short training materials specifically around what you can say to someone who is experiencing suicidal thoughts so that you can improve their safety.
Katy: Great. Thank you for the advice and the resources. And as you say we’ll kind of repeat those at the end for everybody listening. I know we're kind of drawing to a close, but I wanted to come back to you Alice, because the title of this podcast is How to Empower. And to me, the story of going from, in your words, of the worst moments of your life to founding a charity which has saved lives, is the most empowering story I can think of. And I wondered if you had any reflections on, on how you got through that journey and any suggestions from others who might be listening on how to, how to do that.
Alice: Yeah, So I think in all honesty, Ripple has empowered me to keep going. It's given me a purpose. It's allowed me to channel my grief into something positive to help other people. It's too late for my family and me. But it's not too late, for yours. So, the whole, the whole purpose really of empowerment from my personal perspective is Ripple in anutshell. And it continues to empower me on a daily basis to save more lives.
Katy: Thank you. Sean, you were a teacher and now you're at PwC. How has that journey happened? What empowers you?
Sean: So, I think it's a very long and shaggy dog story for me to say the full story of how I ended up here, but how it empowers me. Picking up Alice’s point of purpose is that my day job carries an awful lot of purpose for me. I passionately, passionately believe in the work that I do about improving attitudes towards mental health. And in terms of that empowerment, I get to use my day job skills that I had for many, many years of teaching to actually deliver that training. So we talk about a sweet spot often and I'm very much in that sweet spot where I've got purpose around the training that I deliver, but actually my confidence in the experience that I've had to deliver that training.
Katy: So, as we come to the end of the podcast, Alice, how can we access Ripple?
Alice: So, for individuals who might be listening to this podcast and who are worried about somebody. So, for instance, there are some, their daughter, niece, nephew and so on. This is a free resource that you could download at home. Go onto our website, which is www.ripplesuicideprevention.com. Click on the Install button and there are step-by-step instructions on exactly how you can download Ripple onto your browser. As I said, it is completely free for schools, colleges, universities, parents, charities. And it takes 60 seconds to do that, and that 60 seconds might end up saving a life.
Katy: That draws us to the close of another episode of How to Empower. This has been another great conversation and I would really like to thank Alice and Sean. If you feel that you need support, we would like to remind you there are many different ways you can speak to somebody. You can either text 85258, this is the charity called Shout and is a confidential 24/7 text message service. You can also call the Samaritans on 116123. Or you can download the stay alive app, which is packed full of useful information to help you stay safe. And finally, I would really recommend to check out the Ripple website.
Related content
Contact us
Follow us
