Simon McKinnon

Andy Woodfield:

One of the most exciting things about the Alumni Network is finding out what everyone has been up to since they worked at PwC, and I'm super excited to be interviewing a bunch of really interesting former colleagues to find out what they've been up to since they left the firm. This is your PWC alumni network with me, Andy Woodfield.

Today I'm delighted to share with you an interview I did earlier this year with Simon Mckinnon from the DWP. So, Simon is the DWP'S Chief Digital and Information Officer. So DWP is the department for work in pensions, a huge government department. So Simon was with us, um, back in 1995, and he worked for quite a few of our legacy firms for over 12 years, actually with the firm. So, I hope you enjoy this interview. I certainly enjoyed it. It was really interesting just finding out more about Simon's role and in particular, some of the big challenges that he and his team had over the Covid lockdown. Simon, it's a pleasure to have you with me today. Thank you for your time. This is an opportunity to have something exciting and positive to talk about, which I'm very much looking forward to. I wonder if you could tell me a bit about sort of a potted history of your career and then a little bit about what you do today and what your role is.

Simon Mckinnon:

I started off as a COBAL programmer in the newly formed systems and programming team of Pricewaterhouse back in the early eighties. And then came back and did eight years with Coopers and Live brand as well. So, I’ve been part of both of those organisations. But I decided that I, I actually wanted to be customer side rather than supply side, and so I went through a series of jobs in finance sectors, travel industry, did a com. And I've now spent 13 years with the DWP, and I'm currently responsible for all of their digital and data activities. It's a huge challenge and yeah, it's a wonderful job to do. But I couldn't have believed how challenging it was going to be until I actually got involved.

Andy Woodfield:

I mean, obviously we've had a, uh, a really extraordinary couple of years. What's the, what's been the impact of that on you?

Simon Mckinnon:

The pandemic brought huge changes to department. If you go back to when we went down into lockdown, you know, overnight, we had a tenfold increase in demand, new applications for universal credit, and at the same time, we were spend sending our colleagues home to work from home.

Andy Woodfield:

One of the things that always amazes me, and I think that people don't always understand is the sheer volume and scale of the DWP. I wonder if you could just kind of reel some of those off just to, just to give people a bit of a reality check about, you know, what is the size of this operation?

Simon Mckinnon:

Well, during the pandemic, we opened up 200 new offices, So we have a network of job centres that's, 6, 700, as big as any bank network. We have a hundred thousand employees and we recruited 20,000 more during pandemic. We transact about 4 billion pounds a week in benefit payments and pensions to 21 million customers. You know, we are one of the largest digital organisations in the country.

Andy Woodfield:

Amazing a lot of the work of the DWP is face to face with customers, isn't it? I mean, it’s an intimate personal experience. I wonder, I wonder how many of your would've thought of those frontline staff obviously need to come back, don't they? Although I suppose they could be virtual with some of those client contacts, but do most people, do you think most people want to come back to the office?

Simon Mckinnon:

Yeah, so the work coaches we've got are in our job centres. We have, you know, six, 700 of those around the country in most high streets. And they have been open throughout the entire pandemic to meet vulnerable people and to help them. I think increasingly that we will go back to having those fully staffed and face to face activity.

Andy Woodfield:

And if you could share anything, when you look back at your time at PwC, that's really helped you continues to help you today?

Simon Mckinnon:

There's something about working with a broad range of high quality people that brings out the best in your game and you learn from each other so well. I have thoroughly enjoyed the variety of work I got. You know every new project was a new technology, a new client, a new business model.

Andy Woodfield:

Can you give us a glimpse into the future? What's the future look like for you over the next sort of three or four years?

Simon Mckinnon:

We need to aggressively digitise the department. Our users expect a digital experience and as we have been introducing new services, you see the take up occurs very rapidly and very easily. It'll give us the ability to focus on the high touch cases where we need to give more personalised service.

Andy Woodfield:

I know sometimes they're kind of increasing sort of digitization, sometimes worries, people that feel they might be digitally excluded. How, how do you deal with that?

Simon Mckinnon:

So, we will always provide other routes, telephony, and even visiting services for the people who need those. We provide services to a whole range of disabilities. So, there's you know, services, sign, language services, braille services.

Andy Woodfield:

It is certainly something I've always noticed of the folks in DWP that people actually do really care.

Simon Mckinnon:

This social purpose runs through the core of what we do. You know, often when we're trying to recruit digital people, one of the things that's helped us, particularly with current generations has been that people want to give something to society.

Andy Woodfield:

Is there, is there anything you would like our alumni to know that maybe they don't know about, about you or about the department or the challenges ahead?

Simon Mckinnon:

I do think, you know, whether you are working on a client assignment or you're looking at your own career, you should seriously give the public sector some thought, and it's possible to do something that is challenging with some really extraordinary projects that we have had to deliver.

Andy Woodfield:

I wonder if you could, um, tell us a little about your passions. What really drives you and motivates you, and how maybe in some way those passions that you've got have helped to direct your career over the years?

Simon Mckinnon:

It's a hybrid of bringing the technology skills and the business skills together. That I think is what drives me. Uh, and as I've come into this job here, you know, the opportunity, because the department has not invested in its digital technology from as much as some commercial private organisations might have done. It's just a huge opportunity to make a really significant difference. You know, and if anybody wants to work in the government sector, you know, there are some, there are some really great opportunities to make a difference.

Andy Woodfield:

A great message for everyone. Hey, Simon, thank you so much for your time and giving us a little glimpse into your role, some of the challenges, how kind of PWC helps kind of equip you for some of those challenges. And also great to, I think it's great for people to hear that there are, there are amazing opportunities if you are a curious technologist.

Simon Mckinnon:

I suppose I started off as a technologist. I still am fascinated by technical problems. But for me it was about solving business problems and you know understanding how business operates and how their problems can be solved using digitalization has been the thing that I've quite I've always quite enjoyed, and so it's the hybrid of bringing the technology skills and the business skills together. That I think is what drives me.