Episode 4 - The hybrid working world

Transcript

Laura Hinton: Hello, and welcome to the latest episode of our bite size conversation series, Forces at work. I'm Laura Hinton, head of Tax, Legal and People at PwC UK, and I'm delighted that you're tuning in. We're living through an era of extraordinary change, with so many forces at work. It's an exciting time to be in or entering the workforce. The way we work and interact has been changed forever by the pandemic, with the behaviours that it's engendered and the trends that it has accelerated. Technology continues to enable organisations to work in a connected way, and it's clear that there remains a need for a hybrid way of working, with a blend of remote and office based interaction. But, what opportunities and challenges does hybrid working continue to present in today's world, and how can organisations ensure that their people are at the heart of their hybrid transformation? So, I'm delighted to be joined today by Sarah Moore, head of our Workforce business, to discuss these really important topics. So, Sarah, a lot has happened in the last couple of years, since the pandemic. We've covered a lot of ground, the pendulum definitely swung to the extreme one way, starting to balance out. Where do you think we are, and where's the pendulum going to stop?

Sarah Moore: Well, I think you're absolutely right, that that pendulum has been swinging. I think it's fair to say everything has changed, just to state the obvious. It's completely changed. The way that we live, the way we work, the way we interact. I think there's something about humanity and what we're prepared to do now, having gone through such a shocking and surprising experience. So, I think for the business leaders, trying to take all of that in one place and think about, 'Well, where do we go next?', is, of course, a real challenge for them. I see it in my clients, and of course I see it here at PwC. I think hybrid working is something that done really well can be an absolute game changer, and the most successful organisations are those that are doing it well. I also think it can be something of a hostage to fortune. I think we can see organisations and clients of mine that are, kind of, stuck in an environment that they're finding it hard to get out of. What I'd say from a PwC perspective and where I think we've been really focused around hybrid working, is around considering the best physical and virtual working environments for our people. The new and emerging technology that's really needed to help people do their work and do it well. But also, the guardrails within that. What do we expect of our people, what can they expect from us? On top of it, we have our empowered flexibility, which means we can come to work in a way that is really conditioned to our day, the way that we like to work, what's right for us in our environment. But, just being really clear on what's expected of us by our employer.

Laura Hinton: Yes, I think that's really fair. I've certainly had conversations around - we talk about empowered flexibility. But, sometimes, almost flexibility can become rigid. So, it has to be two way, it has to be sustainable. But if, in a hybrid context, we are too prescriptive in terms of which days you spend where, that's unhelpful as well. I think, as is often my philosophy, everything is about balance, and there isn't a one answer that's perfect for everybody, there isn't one answer necessarily that works for the employer versus employee, and I think we have to avoid that conflict language that I have seen creeping into some of the hybrid conversations. I heard a great phrase the other day, which is, 'The war for talent is over, talent won,' and that was in the context of hybrid working, because there seems to be, in many organisations, and my clients have definitely reflected this back to me, a real sense of, what we want and need as an organisation isn't necessarily aligned with what our talented people want, and actually, they have all the power. Even in a challenged economy, which is fascinating in its own right.

Sarah Moore: Okay, I think so. So, it's a great point. We conducted a Hopes and Fears survey in People in Organisation. It was a global survey, 50,000 workers responded to that. One of the stats that came out from it, is almost a quarter of them are looking to change their job in the next year. So, maybe that fits your, 'Talent has won' example. But, they don't have to. We've got that data point now as employers, and we know that. Coming back to guardrails and flexibility, there is no one size fits all. But, what you can do, as a good, strong employer, is think about what's going to benefit your people and really understand what they want and need. So, looking at the positives around hybrid working and the benefits that come from that, on the job learning, that whole piece around connection, connectivity, building friendships. All of those things can come from being in the office, being at client's site, working physically with people, as well as that virtual experience. But, just setting it up in a way that helps people, I think is where the success is going to lie. But, I'd like to throw it back to you. I'm talking a little bit about on the job learning, what do you see as the value of the, you know, in house experience?

Laura Hinton: Yes. I mean, I think it's fascinating. You touched on some of the points. For me, it's kind of about humanness and humility and the glue that holds us all together as individuals, and therefore as organisations. An organisation is made up of a group of individuals, and I think we can be really productive, we can be really effective, and there is absolutely a place for remote working and hybrid working. But, I think-, I wouldn't necessarily say there's no substitute for being together, because I think, to some extent, that's a bit of a cop-out. You can build relationships online, you can, you know, lead well online. You have to put more effort and emphasis on it, it can be done. It's harder, and I do think you lose something in the process. I think, if we think about all of those characteristics that are innately human, building relationships, judgement, integrity, fun, sense of humour. That stuff comes to life when people are together. We're social beings. That, for me, creates the glue that holds an organisation together. Creating a sense of belonging is really important to me. I think it's what makes people stick within organisations. If you're not together physically some of the time, it doesn't have to be all of the time, I think organisations are starting to lose out.

I think, as PwC, we would definitely say that that has been true here. Some of the feedback that we have from our people who've joined us since the pandemic, which is 56% of our workforce, which is a mind blowing stat, they struggle with some of the things that others wouldn't have done in the past. Some of the physical things like speaking up in meetings, how do you interact within meetings. We talk a lot about osmosis. The things that you learn from just being immersed in an environment. How do you have a conversation with a client, how do you negotiate a different deadline, how do you do some of the more tricky things? There's really no substitute from hearing somebody else do it in reality, rather than reading about the theory or going on a training course. So, I think those people that have joined us post pandemic, are really good at independent working, really good at some of the, kind of, self starter type characteristics, but struggle with some of the broader interaction, and we're trying to rebalance that. So, long way of saying, I think there are loads of benefits to being together, that are less tangible. But, all of them wrap up together to create an organisation's culture. I think that is the key. It trumps strategy, any day of the week.

Sarah Moore: I completely agree with that. You know, I've got a little metaphor around, if you've got bricks and mortar you've got a house. But, if you've got people in it that you're engaged with, that you enjoy being with, that you can be yourself and your best self, then you've got a home. I've been thinking about an organisation and a building as a place that people can call home, because you do spend such a long time in there. They're all the benefits that you can have from it. I really take the point, of course you can build those relationships when you're working remotely. But again, we've had many conversations around hybrid working, and one of my dear colleagues talked to me about the fact that you can be a great line manager remotely, you can do your tasks remotely, but can you be a leader? Can you work closely with people and be a coach, can you create that connectivity? You're right, you can do it. But, it's so much harder and effortful, and wouldn't we be better off spending our time in a different way, to get the best from each other? Which we can do, with the right environment, the right guardrails, the right technology, if you get hybrid working working successfully for you.

Laura Hinton: Yes, I think that's right. Just picking up on that point about technology, particularly thinking about generative AI and how that's changing the way of work. I think all of that is relevant. I mean, the whole concept that work is a set of tasks and not a location, I think is really interesting. But, think about that set of tasks and think about how many of those tasks might be able to be completed via AI or technology in the future, if not now. How do we think about work? I think the reality, this is a bit of a sweeping generalisation, but it's some of those simpler, more repetitive tasks that our more junior people can do easily from home that will get automated. So actually, having people physically together, a brilliant opportunity to really engage people in a different way, more complex tasks, more sophisticated work, more ingenuity, more collaboration to get to a better answer. You can't use AI to do that. So, I think, as we think about work and tasks and how it's automated, it's another reason to think differently around people coming together, to think about the whole world of work in a different way. Which is both an opportunity and it's a threat, as well.

Sarah Moore: It really is. Look, there's a shout out for the HR function here. What an amazing time to be in the HR function, because it means that those of us that are HR practitioners and spending time with the workforce, we're at the front and centre of this. We're influencing business leaders. What I'm seeing my clients grapple with here, is exactly what we're talking about. Those that have got a really clear strategy set out, a business strategy where they want to be focused geographically, how they are organising their business, what's onshore, what's offshore, where their people are skilled, where they need to reskill them, the impact of AI. Bringing all of that together in a holistic strategy with hybrid working at the heart of it, everything working together, tech strategy, real estate strategy. There's so much opportunity within that, if you can be holistic about it. To my earlier point, I think there's a piece of other organisations that are just a bit stuck. I'm talking to some clients that are like, 'Productivity was amazing during lockdown for us. Everyone worked from home, the people in our call centres were fine, the tech worked, they loved it. We can't get them back.' This is my point about slightly being a hostage to fortune, around how can you change that narrative, around the one that we're talking about here? It's a clear reason for our people to be physically working together and working remotely, getting the best out of their work experience and the environment, and they're more inclined to perform better, be more engaged and stay. So, getting that right is the nirvana, is where I'm seeing some of the more successful organisations really thriving.

Laura Hinton: Yes, I would agree with that. Certainly, the conversations that I'm having with clients would reflect that. I think, almost an understanding that there was a short to medium term uptick in productivity. But actually, potentially at the expense of a longer term strategic direction, and we were trading off of old and existing relationships, and building newer relationships and thinking into the future is harder in a remote world, hence the need for hybrid. But, I think you hit the nail on the head. It's about having hybrid at the centre of your people and workforce, arguably, your business strategy, rather than having it as a bolt on to what you were already doing. I think those organisations that can really weave it into the fabric of their overall strategy will be the ones that are most successful. I think hybrid working is here to stay. Personally, I think that's a good thing. Certainly, all of the surveys and data would suggest that employees think it's a good thing. Employers acknowledge that it's necessary to attract the talent, and actually, see the benefits. But, I think, back to that pendulum, will find its place in the world. But, I think only deliver the benefits it needs if it really is at the heart of the strategy and wired into all of those other elements, as you say. Any other titbits that you've picked up from clients, or tips in terms of how they're making it even more effective?

Sarah Moore: One piece that I've been really impressed by is how organisations are linking hybrid working around their purpose. So, for those that are looking at changing the real estate and the footprint, going into new locations, thinking about what's the location that we might go into, that we might be able to create some benefit. But, where there's, you know, economic inequalities, building offices or places that their people can go to and really creating a difference to the economy of that location. So it's something that we did ourselves in Bradford, where we set up a PwC office. We've really been able to make a difference there around the economy and from a levelling up perspective. So, I'm seeing organisations that are very purpose led thinking about that and weaving it into part of their hybrid working real estate strategy. Also, of course, their ESG commitments and net zero. So, it's really wide ranging. It touches so much organisationally. You know, reward and incentives, getting the policy and strategy right around that, that supporting people and their decision making about what organisation to be drawn to. So, it's very, very multifaceted. But, I definitely think this piece around ESG and purpose has been another really positive by-product of what we're seeing.

Laura Hinton: Yes, I would agree there. I would also throw inclusion strategy into that mix as well. Again, I think that's both pros and cons. I think what we know is from a diverse talent perspective, actually, there's a real pull to have more flexibility, be able to work at home, whether that's gender, whether that's ethnicity. Also, disabilities as well. You know, overcoming some of the physical barriers of having to travel into an office. There's some real upsides to being able to work in a different way. For me, there is also something around not using that to ignore the barriers that still do exist in the physical workplace, by allowing people to be working elsewhere, and therefore we don't see them. But, the underlying challenges are still there, and I think that's something that we'll need to work through, in terms of what are some of the unintended consequences and still unexplained or not understood now? What, in the medium term, long term, implications are there, from a diversity and inclusion perspective, of the way that we're starting to work? Certainly, some interesting conversations coming up in that space.

Sarah Moore: I completely agree with that. I do see the opportunities being huge and so beneficial, more than they were before. But, you're absolutely right, being really thoughtful about the impact. Particularly, those people that aren't seen, it's vital. This comes back to my point around don't be done to, or let it just happen. Be really thoughtful and proactive around what you're going to do about it and what your expectations of others are.

Laura Hinton: Fantastic. Well, Sarah, we are out of time. Thank you so much for your thoughts, your insights and sharing your perspectives on what is a really current but a fascinating topic. I think this debate will run for a while. Thank you to everybody for tuning in and listening today, I hope you have also found it interesting and insightful. Don't forget, we've got so many experts in our people business, so please do reach out to us if you'd like to hear more on any of the topics that we've been talking about. Thanks everyone, and see you next time.

Speakers

• Laura Hinton, Head of Tax, Legal and Workforce
• Sarah Moore, Head of Workforce